Not my dog...
#23923 - 08/30/2001 12:40 AM |
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I moved in with friends in December because I had adopted a dog which could not live in the apartment I was living in. The couple I moved in with have two dogs, a black lab mix (very sweet) and a newly(at the time) adopted English Springer Spaniel. On Christmas eve he grabbed a dog biscuit out of my hand (and yes, I now know this was dumb), I tried to grab it back. I was attacked, and had some defense wounds to my hands and my wrists. He was going for my throat. If my fiance hadn't been there to intervene it would have been worse. There have been occasions where he has growled at me or the couple I live with but only at night and usually only when he has somthing to defend. Tonight he bit one of his owners (the man). He was defending some bread he got into. I know this will cause some changes but I don't know what will happen now. The wife loves this dog and gets very defensive of him (he bit her once on the finger a week after they got him, which she attributed to him being new)
We have taken all of the dogs through obedience training, Morgan (the springer) is about two and a half years old. They have recently decided to crate train him, he went in the first two nights but now refuses to go in and growls and shows teeth. This is not my dog, I don't think I could own a dog quite like him, but I am in a unique position and was wondering if anyone had any advice about what I could do? I will only be living here until June of this year, but I would like to help them, I just don't know how.
Thank you.
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Re: Not my dog...
[Re: heathea ]
#23924 - 08/30/2001 01:12 AM |
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This dog knows that he can get his way by being aggressive. Food-guarding is common among dogs that have had to fend for themselves, such as strays, or dogs that are insecure about whether they will get to eat again or not. This dog could have been given up because of this behavior, as well, which means that it's probably deeply rooted.
Have your friends considered hand-feeding the dog? This means that he is given each bite of every meal from the hands of a human. Instead of taking away his food, people will be giving him his food. This has been known to work with dogs that have good-guarding tendencies. Also, if he has something that he should not have, it is better to trade him for something even better than what he's got. No, this does not reward bad behavior, what it does is reinforces the idea that people give him good things, rather than take away precious commodities like food. Imagine if every time you were eating a meal, someone came along and took it from you....you'd probably get pretty aggressive in defending your meal, too! Plus, your friends probably have no idea how this dog was treated by its previous owners! If they disciplined him harshly, unfairly, and/or unpredictably, he could easily have developed the idea of aggression as the way to get what you want.
For the crate training, your friends should bear in mind that this dog may have never been crate trained before, and the idea of the crate could very easily be new to him. It can take several weeks to crate train an adult dog, you can't just put him in there and expect him to accept it. It's a process. Trying to force it on him will only result in more aggression, as he will resist it. If they want to crate train him, that's fine, but they need to do it properly, or else they'll just make things worse.
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Re: Not my dog...
[Re: heathea ]
#23925 - 08/30/2001 01:14 AM |
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Wish I could edit my posts! I meant "food-guarding", not "good-guarding"! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
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Re: Not my dog...
[Re: heathea ]
#23926 - 08/30/2001 10:24 AM |
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Thanks for the reply, and those were some really good ideas. One problem though is that when he has somthing he is not supposed to have if you even mention his name he will attack, how can I offer him somthing better if I can't get past him to the treat cupboard. As to the crate training, your right, he needs some time to adjust to the idea, but what are some good ways to get him into it?
Thanks again for the reply.
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Re: Not my dog...
[Re: heathea ]
#23927 - 08/30/2001 11:06 AM |
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Get the Springer to a competent vet, Springers are notorious for PRR, a neurological disorder somewhat related to epilepsy that can cause serious aggression. I can't diagnose from your post, but it would be worth checking into. Unfortunately, this condition is rampant in the breed.
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Re: Not my dog...
[Re: heathea ]
#23928 - 08/30/2001 12:29 PM |
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I agree, get this dog checked out by a vet. If everything turns out normal at the vets then I would find a really good trainer and get this dog's issue dealt with immediately. As far as getting the dog into the crate I would feed him in there. He wants to eat he needs to go into the crate to do it. Food goes into the back of the kennel and he'll need to go in there to eat. I would leave the kennel door open while he eats til he get used to it then gradually close the door. Give him a command such as kennel or crate. Once the dog understands it's a nice place to be then he should go in on his own. Then you can use a treat and say kennel and give the dog the treat when he enters the crate and then shut the door. Once the dog realizes it's a safe place he should go into easily. Again, if this dog is normal physically and checks out OK but still has serious issues I can't stress enough to get an experienced trainer who deals with these kind of issues ASAP. If this dog continues to be aggressive and bite then euthanasia may be a consideration.
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Re: Not my dog...
[Re: heathea ]
#23929 - 08/30/2001 12:47 PM |
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I agree that a complete work-up at the vet is a really good idea.
As to your questions, if the dog's problem is so severe that you can't get anywhere near him or say his name without an aggressive reaction, then at this point, I would suggest that thoroughly dog-proofing the house is crucial. Prevent him from being able to get anything he shouldn't, because every time he is able to do that, it reinforces the behavior.
My method of crate training adult dogs is not something I would do with an aggressive dog, because it involves food and toys at first, then compulsion when the time is right. We know this dog guards food aggressively, and does not respond well to compulsion, so I just wouldn't recommend crate training until your friends have a better handle on the situation.
All in all, I really think that your friends are in over their heads and should probably get a trainer in to see the dog in person. In the meantime, they should do everything they can to avoid the dog having anything to guard. The dog needs to learn that the people are his *source* of everything, not his *takers away* of precious commodities.
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Re: Not my dog...
[Re: heathea ]
#23930 - 08/30/2001 01:00 PM |
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I don't know that I would label this dog's behavior as *dominance*. Some dogs are just plain nuts. They cannot adapt to a normal pack existence. I certainly hope this dog is neutered?
Again, a complete eval w/a *qualfied* vet is mandatory in cases like this. You need, at the minimum a full blood panel. There are medical conditions that can exacerbate aggression problems and those must be ruled out.
Was this dog a rescue? I think it's important to recognize that not all dogs can be saved, no matter how hard we try.
Rule out the possiblities of underlying medical conditons, tho.
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Re: Not my dog...
[Re: heathea ]
#23931 - 08/30/2001 01:19 PM |
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Joy, you're absolutely correct, all the way down to your last sentence.
I guess what I'm thinking here, is that the dog's aggression is a response to a percieved threat to his survival, in other words, taking food away from him. Do you not think that this could have been learned from his previous experiences? If so, can the response not be modified?
My biggest caution to these people is to keep children away from this dog. All it takes is for the kid to have a piece of food in their hand, and boom, you've got a full-blown dog-attacks-kid on your hands! That would be my one argument for euthanasia in this case.
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Re: Not my dog...
[Re: heathea ]
#23932 - 08/30/2001 02:44 PM |
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Agreed that food/object guarding are dominance signals, actually, IMO object/food guarding are rooted in territoriality more than in dominace, hence low rank dogs who are extremely territorial at home, etc.
But, in this case, the behavior described is way over the top. I can understand a young male growling and posturing to get his own way, but a full blown attack?
Let's also put this in context, this is a Springer spaniel, not an 18 mo male Rott. Aggression in a springer, IMO is nuttier than aggression in a breed in which a degree of aggression is normal, even desirable. For ex. I've seen no less than six (6) Goldens who lunge, snarl, growl, and hackle to any human/canine who gets w/in a few feet of them. Would you not interpret the seriousness of this behavior differently in a Golden than you might if the dog displaying the behavior is a different breed?
It is really difficult b/c we can't see this Springer in action and thus can't really diagnose via keyboard. But, it sounds nuttier than simple dominance aggression and I definitely agree about keeping kids away from this dog at all costs.
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