Hello All, First time post.
I have a almost 8 month old gsd. The last couple of weeks he has decided he will listen when he wants. I will call him to come and he will look at me and turn and go lay down in his crate. I've never had this issue before with my other gsd's. I know I must of done something wrong, just not sure what it is.

In the morning he is as nice as can be before he is fed. Once fed he gets lazy and doesn't want to train. When we are outside he is not on a leash or anything like that. We have a huge yard and he loves to run around. It just doesn't seem like he has a lot of motivation or drive.

My question is, is he acting like a teenager, could I have done something wrong, or should I put the training colar on him and start back at the gegining and build back up the trust? I ordered the dvd Focus Heeling and can't wait for it to arrive.

Thanks to all that reply.
Craig

Welcome!

It sounds like he could be confused so he's shutting down. I'd go back to square one with very short, very motivational sessions. Set him up to succeed so you don't need to correct him in training. I'd wait to feed him his main meal until night and use high value food throughout the day for your short training sessions

I'd go ahead and order the training dogs with food DVD and the marker one if you can afford both. You'll learn a lot of good ideas in those that will help you build his drive focus and relationship with you.

If he is on a long line outside or drag line in the house, you have control & can he cannot make the decision not to comply. He should not be off a line until his recall is reliable. (9 out of 10 X, 9 out of 10 X) All you do is reinforce the dog's ability not to listen if he doesn't want to, if he is off line & you can't prevent him from walking away when you call him.

Training collar? Are you spoeaking of a prong/pinch collar? How are you training? Unsing compulsion/praise? You might want to use marker training if you haven't tried it.

Train BEFORE feeding. If you are using food, he will be hungry & more motovated to work. If you do not have a high food drive dog, if they are not hungry they have no motovation. Some dogs have both food & toy/ball drive. Others more of one then the other or varing degrees of both. Depends on the dog & you to figure out what motovates your own dog. They are all different.

At 8 months old, pups are starting to test out their independence & the boundries. It is only the begining.....this will get more pronounced & continue until maturity...anywhere between 18 mo & 2 or even 3 years.

I NEVER even try to work my dogs just after they eat.
Even if they act like they want to.

On the recall. Gonna need more of the story.
Did you train the recall so you could put him in the crate?
Hows the recall outside? etc etc etc.

More background.

Randy's right about is you are using the recall to an unplesant/negative end. You don't want to call the dog to come just to put him in a crate or bring him in the house etc. The end result of a recall should be a positive thing...treats, lots of praise, playing tug or with a toy or just interacting with you. Happy times so he knows that you are the most wonderful thing on the planet to come to & only wonderful things happen when he comes to you. You get the idea.

Hi Craig,

Welcome to the forum! You don't have a stubborn dog, you have an eight month old dog who needs more training and consitant training. Somewhere along the line, he has learned that "come" sometimes means come and sometimes doesn't mean come and consequently, knows he does not have to always obey. A bit more info will help, what types of training are you using, how long have you had the dog, etc... He could very well be a lower drive dog than you have had before but that simply means you will need to be more creative in finding ways to engage him and "turn him on".

Like Randy, I never work my dog immediately after eating... too much risk potential. But you CAN use the morning meal for training purposes; get the food out of the bowl and use it as rewards for correct behaviors.

I know you will get more assistance as we get more info.

I've had Zeus since he was 8 weeks. I didn't know I was using marker training till I found out from this site that I was. One problem on my part was using good boy instead of yes. I think I've confused him now by using yes and saying good boy when he's holding.

I am using a prong collar sometimes. I've never (that I recall) had to use a high level correction.

I feed him 2x a day (morning & evening). I just ordered the liver biscoti and zukes treats. He loves these.

He is definately not as motivated as my previous gsd's. He did great with training and his temperment was great until recently. The only thing changed is he was nuetered.

Should I have him on a 5' lead with his prong collar in the house at all times for now? Close his crate? Put the 30' lead on when we go out at all times for now?

I apologize to the excellent trainers out there. I know this is my fault and I also now I can fix this. It's greatly appreciated for the comments.

I personally would not use a prong & corrections on a puppy (at all, but that's me) that I was using marker training with. It is counterproductive & contradictory. At some point WAY down the road, it might be needed to proof the training, but I would be just be working on positive training at this point. A physical correction is not possitive motovational training.

With a leash or long line on a flat collar you can control where you dog goes & doesn't go. If you control the dog & his environment you can have positive effects on the dog & not negative ones. As for the crate....when you ask him to go into his crate, toss a few treats in there, so that he has something to look forward to when entering there. I would make sure that I didn't only recall the dog to go into his crate or the house etc. You want him wanting to come to you for good things,not something that he feels is a negative thing. If you need to crate him, at this point until he looses his negative feeling about the crate, just go to him & lead him to the crate & then toss in the treats & remove his leash. Leash in house & longline outside.

Take the time to read the many articles here on marker training & if need be, go back to square one & start again if you feel it will help set a better mindset in your dog. You can use whatever word you want as a marker. But I would keep it simple & make it only 1 word & say it in the say tone all the time. (or use a clicker)You want to also use a negative marker work like no or nay for training. There is never any shame in going back & retraining something if you think it needs work.

Treats for training can be whatever the dogs love. I use zukes & other small soft treats & small hot dog pieces. It is best that they are tiny & soft so the dog doesn't have to take the time to chew & want to lick up crumbs. Some people use cheese, some fruits & veggies. Depends on what the dog values not you.

Don't know about if neutering will make any difference in temperment or motovation. as my dogs are intact so I don't have any experience with a before & after..

I'm with Barb- I think your pup is testing you.

Around 8 months is when my GSD started testing the water. Up until then he was a saint, so I got in the habit of cutting him a little slack. Bad idea! I had to start all over again with NILF and tethering and EVERYTHING.

My personal opinion is on a low - medium drive pup at 8 months old, ditch the prong and study marker training and implement it. You may have been rewarding for "good boy" but there really is a bit more to it than that, although nothing magical or hard to learn. Trust me, when you "charge the mark" (let's assume "YES!") he will quickly learn that YES gets him a yummy treat and will elicite his interest and attention. Marker training uses several words during the training process: Are you ready? Yes! Nope. Gooood. All done! It is a process - not a single action.

If he is not misbehaving in the house, I'm not sure you need a line on while inside. However, if he is blowing you off or acting like a dope and you need to be able to get hold of him, a short drag line (no handle) on a flat collar is good. Outside, while working on recall - a long line is an absolute until you have him responding as needed. Falcon was on a 100' drag line outside all the time at that age so that I could reach out and hug him when ever needed.

Start working on the recall inside, using marker training. Several short sessions using his favorite treats. Follow the advice on Ed's free ebook on the subject and get the video if possible, and start at square one. After he is doing great inside, work outside in a quiet environment, and have the means to gently bring him to you via lead line if he doesn't respond. As soon as he comes toward you - mark YES and treat when he gets to you. As he becomes proficient at outside with no distractions, you then add mild distractions, etc...

We trained "kennel" and can send Falcon to his kennel from any room in the house. He always gets treats for doing so - nothing negative is ever associated with going to his crate. Make a game of it.

I don't believe neutering effects obedience... training will however. Keep it short, fun and rewarding for him. No need to apologize - most of here are still learning.