My mother has a 3 yr. GS male. He is quite large and weighs almost as much as my mother. One day, about a year ago, my father made the mistake of letting the GS out with the 6 pugs and 1 tiny toy poodle after the family had just gotten home. The poodle was always challenging the GS,(which is why they where seperated). This time the poodle got too abnoxious and the GS went to dicipline the 4 pound poodle and ended up killing him. 4 pounds vs. 90 pounds. (Before this, mother knew that they shouldn't have been together, Father didn't think!! She was on her way to put the GS back away when 2 sec. later this all happened). As she was on her way to get the GS, that is when he turned on the poodle, she an yelling and started to choke the GS. Make a story short, she wanted to kill the GS, as she was exteamly angry. She diciplined the GS before she went to the aid of the poodle knowing that she didn't have the time to doddle. All I know is that in her anger, the GS started to growel at her. First time he did this. He was 2.5 yrs at the time. She thought that he was just being domanant, I think that he is afraid of her, as she did threaten his life choking him. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Now a year has passed and she cannot even say "good boy" with out him groweling, hair raised and tail stiff. If she pets him, it will take a few min. befor he will relax. My father diciplines him very hard. He kicked the tar out of him when he groweled at him one day and the dog doesn't give him any trouble at all. My mother tried a prong collar or shock collar before this incident and he would get a little cocky. The dog doesn't like me either, I am a woman too. Any body have any suggestions? I have already told them that they need to just get rid of him or put him down. No luck there. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Thanks,
Belynda

I'm afraid to say that there have been so many mistakes made here that I'm not sure this dog will ever recover. Firstly, it was known that the poodle had a problem with the shepherd, a mistake was made by letting them be together, and someone tries to choke the dog to death? The dog was oviously afraid for his life(he was being choked) and your mother is fortunate that growling is all the dog did. This dog sounds like he has received one too many ass kickings and the dog is now shit scared. I find it hard to imagine that this dog will ever trust anyone. In the right hands.....maybe there can be hope for this dog. It sounds like a pretty terrible situation. It is late so I will comment further tomorrow.

I echo Franks thoughts on this. It does not sound good from the description given but then everything was negative that was posted.

What are the points about this GSD that you do like? What can the dog do that is in your mind worth keeping it above and over the fact that he sounds to be not right. Fear or Rank, although I doubt the rank issue is the problem? You did mention fur up and most really rank dogs do not show off before doing you in.

My money is on idiopathic fear response componded by the memory that he can be put into a life threatening place and he is by living in the same house as the tar and choking location.

JMO,

When the family member "Kicked the Tar out of Him" What was the dogs reaction to this and does the dog continue to growl at this person.

Having to choke and kick and "live" with this seems a bit unusual.

JC

How anyone could live wih a dog that they are afraid to pet for over a year is crazy. It is very hard if not impossible to trouble shoot a serious problem over the computer. You must get personal help or get rid of the dog. Sorry I could not be of more help. I feel for you.

Ps. Chuck go to bed!

Sorry I could't elaborate last night any further. I'm a musician and I just got home from a gig and I was exausted! Yes I know, Postal Supervisor, musician, dog training....It's amazing I ever have any time to post at all!LOL

Anyway, unfortunately, I agree with Vince here.(Not that agreeing with Vince is EVER unfortunate!) What I mean is that this is a very hard situation to be evaluated on a web board. I think that what Jerry said made a lot of sense. A dog will not forget being put in a life or death situation. Now I understand being upset at what happened to the Poodle, however had the poodle been a Standard size(not a 4 lb toy) then the response that the GSD gave would likely not have been fatal. The dog sent a message and unfortunately that message was too much for a 4 lb dog. If this dog was a truly dominant dog, your mother would not be able to nearly choke him to death. That dog would have fought....and your 90 lb mother would have been in BIG trouble.(You said your mother weighed about the same as the dog).

There is not enough info. known about this GSD, so it is very hard to comment. Its sounds completely fear based resulting from the environment the dog is in. I agree with Vince. I could never keep a dog that I can't even pet without worrying about aggression. Definately get a professional.

Chuck your not the postal worker from the Village people?

I salute you Chuck, and I HOPE the only place I ever see you going "postal" is on stage!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Milt,

Young man.....da da da da da da.......YMCA!....YMCA!

Ok now I'm really losing it!LOL <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Thank you for all of your input. I have tried to convince to my parents to get rid of the dog and haven't been succesful. I have had some expereance with agession but only the rank type. In response to the web sight question, I do breed GS and only the European working lines with mabey a touch of show line in them. My dogs are never like this one. Unfortunatly the bloodline that the dog in question has is half American and half German. This is why I think that there is a major problem with doing this type of breeding. You just get mud. I do some training in Schutzhund and some dog behavior, but I don't have more than 9 years expierence. I feel that I have a good understanding on most things, but it can take a long time to get things streight. I have only been training my own dogs lately for Schutzhund and start of K-9 work.
To the question about the tar kicken person. The dog is not afraid of my dad at all. (The tar kicker.) The only time he ever kicked the tar out of the dog is when he showed agression toward my dad. After that, the dog is quite good with him. My dad is not the type that listens to advice on dog dicipline. The dog only seems to growel at us women in the family. By the way, I do not live with them, but visit quite often. Just tonight, I had to go over and let the dog out of his crate so he could go out to do his bussiness, and he came out all stiff and trotted off and when he was done, he came back all tough like and hair up, stood in front of me like he was going to challenge me. Then he leaned up against me as if he wanted me to pet him. I just ignored him and told him "cheerfuly" to go back in his crate. He obeyed but as stiff as a board the whole way. However, he didn't growled at me.
As far as a professional is concerned, there is only one person in my area that I would even consider a professional in dog behavior, and he doesn't think that the dog should be kept in the situation either. He doesn't think very highly about dogs with weeker nerves. Just like I say, a dog with week nerves should NEVER have been bred to make more dangerous dogs. This dog needs to be a security dog for a junk yard or something, where he will be fed and petted and told good boy and there won't be any other dogs around. I think that the only way I could ever get my parents to get rid of the dog is to find them a dog that they could replace this one with. Something that would have a stronger character.
My question is, is there any thing that any one thinks might help the damage that has been done? I know that the dog will never forget, but I have tried to do my best about them getting rid of it.