We have a 70 pound , strong, fast, rowdy yearling Akita/Shep mix that we are attempting to socialize so he can go into a permanent home. He's a very playful boy with a ton of play (and prey) drive and boundless energy that he needs to run off. Watching him play, I get the impression that he may have been around littermates or at least another large, playful dog, because he has all the moves to initiate and maintain play.

His main current playmate is a yearling BC mix about half his size. He's also a social, friendly guy with an awful lot of play in him.

At times, their play is very reciprocal and consists of just the mouthing, wrestling, chasing, etc., when both are the "chaser" and the "chasee" in about equal proportions.

At other times, the big boy is clearly the aggressor, and he'll slam his chest into the BC, send him flying, then pounce on him and hold him down with his mouth around the BC's neck. Momentarily, the BC will wiggle free, get out of the hold, and be off to the races. The BC has become an escape artist, and he has found a number of safe zones throughout the property (about 1/2 acre) where he can fit but the big boy can't. Invariably, though, the BC will come charging out from behind a bush or whatever, and the chase is on again. I wish I had their energy, I'll say that.

My question is has anyone had success shaping the way the dogs play to some extent? I'd like to tone down the big dogs "dominating" style and encourage more his play in which he almost "handicaps" himself to give the BC mix a fair chance. Alot of times, the big boy will engage in a play bow, lay down, and the BC will come over and they'll wrestle around. The big dog is extremely creative in finding ways to keep the BC engaged, and he seems to modify his behavior on the fly when the BC gets tired, disinterested, or whatever.

I have had SOME success just using my voice when they play - "good" when they are playing in a way that allows a "fair fight" and "No" or "leave it" when the big dude has his body and mouth over the BC and is nearly smothering him. Would you suggest continuing this practice - anything else that might work better?

Or, do I just need to get a life (or a beer) and let the dogs play? The BC does always wear out first, and he'll eventually lay down and for the most part the big guy will leave him alone. These two are never outside unsupervised.

Thanks for any information.

Do you notice a difference when you do use commands while they play?

Hi Rob,

My male GSD plays a lot like your new Akita/Shep mix. He is clearly the dominant one over my female.
I am always there to supervise and if I feel that my male is getting too rough, I use a stern, low voice and tell him
"gentle" and he looks up at me and knows to stop his overtly boisterous play. If he continues, he knows I will separate him and so he listens most all the time now.
He is now 2 yrs old and I suspect he has come to the maturity level and he also knows I mean business.

My female is the one who entices him to chase and she baits him all the time. They have these games they play and I really love watching as they cavort back and forth.

I think when they were younger, there were a couple times when I knew if it sounded like it was more serious than just playing.
You can tell the sound of their intensity, and their posture when a fight might start. It is best to catch that before it gets out of hand. If there was ever a time when I didn't like the tone of things, play stops and both dogs were brought in and separated.
It seems as though they learned that was no fun and that if they were wanting to play, they needed to do so with no escalations.
Now just with the tone of my voice, I can tell them to knock it off and they listen.

As long as you can tell that it is just play and no serious domination or aggression is happening, I say just enjoy the show.

Rob, I should add, that if you do feel like the 'big boy of yours is really smothering the BC then I might put the big guy in check yourself, in order to send the message that you won't tolerate him being too rowdy with the BC.

 Quote: joyce salazar

Hi Rob,

My male GSD plays a lot like your new Akita/Shep mix. He is clearly the dominant one over my female.
I am always there to supervise and if I feel that my male is getting too rough, I use a stern, low voice and tell him
"gentle" and he looks up at me and knows to stop his overtly boisterous play. If he continues, he knows I will separate him and so he listens most all the time now.
He is now 2 yrs old and I suspect he has come to the maturity level and he also knows I mean business.

My female is the one who entices him to chase and she baits him all the time. They have these games they play and I really love watching as they cavort back and forth.

I think when they were younger, there were a couple times when I knew if it sounded like it was more serious than just playing.
You can tell the sound of their intensity, and their posture when a fight might start. It is best to catch that before it gets out of hand. If there was ever a time when I didn't like the tone of things, play stops and both dogs were brought in and separated.
It seems as though they learned that was no fun and that if they were wanting to play, they needed to do so with no escalations.
Now just with the tone of my voice, I can tell them to knock it off and they listen.

As long as you can tell that it is just play and no serious domination or aggression is happening, I say just enjoy the show.

That sounds very similar to these guys, Joyce, thanks for the response!!

There has never been a tone from either that suggested a fight. Lots of "play growling" and I know it can escalate, but I have never heard it or seen it, fortunately. I like "gentle" better than "No" - it's more situation specific so I'll start using that as a cue and reinforcing. The Akita mix wants so badly to please that he responds to voice tones alot - I can already see a difference in their play.

I wouldn't have believed if I hadn't lived it, but marker training is the key. In this boy's eyes, I can do no wrong, and he is always looking for ways to get another stroke (or treat!).

I will continue shaping these guys' play. If the big boy gets out of hand, I'll let the BC in the house and end the session.

Thanks for the feedback.

 Quote: Spencer Martin

Do you notice a difference when you do use commands while they play?

Only with the big guy. Sometimes it's a proximity thing - have to be pretty close - but he responds. The BC seems to be running on hind-brain No generalizations, here - I'm just not sure he's the poster boy for one of the most intelligent breeds.

 Quote:

The Akita mix wants so badly to please that he responds to voice tones alot

This is just like my male too. Luckily for me, he is more the pleaser and compliant one of my two. So, he listens to me more so than my stubborn female, she is so darned aloof, it is harder for me to get her attention. But she is all ears and eyes for her toys, "so at least I got that goin for me".....(digressing to Bill Murray and his line from Caddy Shack)

Would it help any to attempt to wear out the big guy with some ball activity prior to play with the BC if you want to equal the energy level some? A thought to consider first though, if the big guy gets too amp'd up and then the BC comes out...things might cross that line.

I have two Pit mixes. Both about 75lbs. The male is clearly more dominant while they play and they play very rough. He likes to do the playful bow and then he drops down and exposes his belly. While I realize that is the opposite of dominance it seems that they both know their place and realize that its play and so he is not afraid to behave in this submissive way.

I noticed that during play the male will consistently mount the female. I use a very annoying and loud "EH" sound and he backs off. When the playing gets too rough I use the word "easy" in a stern tone and he backs off. I can tell when he gets carried away because he will chase her and go for the back of her neck putting his head above her shoulders.

Interestingly when its strictly play and he is being less dominant he goes for the underside of her neck but with no force at all.

To make things more confusing my male can clearly tear her apart and in fact on 2 occasions I had to separate them. yet the female is more protective of her bones and toys and will aggressively chase him off when he gets to close and she is busy with a toy or anything chewable thing I give her. I cant figure out why he lets he get away with that. She can take stuff right from his mouth but never the other way around They have grown up together in my house for the past two and a half years.

It makes me wonder who is really the dominant one. I feed them seperately thanks to the advice on this discussion board. When its his turn he goes to his food without a care in the world. When its her turn she seems reluctant to go anywhere near her bowl until he is completely out of the room. Almost as if she is afraid of him.

What gives??

Any thoughts...

Why would anybody allow their dogs to engage in an aggressive or dominant ranking behavior towards each other? It would seem that if the dogs are trying to rank it out, even in play, the owner is not in control. The idea that aggression and dominance is OK if there is no blood spilled does not seem right to me. If the dogs cannot play nice they shouldn't be playing together IMO. Of course, the owner would know his dogs better than anybody and would be able to tell if there is an issue or if it's all good wholesome fun.