I have been talking obedience classes with Tasha, mostly for proofing and controlled socialization with other dogs. We have some early dog aggression going on, and I'm seeing real improvement using the advice of the trainers there. I am also seeing progress in her basic obedience and major progress in engagement.

The problem is that I have seen a few things that I really didn't like while at class.

The first thing was another trainer giving a few really heavy handed corrections to a dog who seemed kind of shut down to me. The dog was there for day boarding, and I don't know what his story is but it didn't feel right to me.

Last night at class there was an incident with a small dog snarling at the trainer. I understand that you can't let the dog win in that kind of situation, but the way the trainer handled it seemed overly physical to me. The dog completely panicked and was screaming. He actually defecated twice.

My issue is that I am seeing success, and these people have come highly recommended. They are very accomplished as trainers. Before I decided to go with them I searched here and found them mentioned in previous threads by members who's opinions I would trust.

And of course their program is really expensive and I have already paid in full.

I know my dog can take a correction and bounce back, she's super tough. Actually last night the trainer gave her a pretty stiff correction for lunging at another dog and she walked away from it relaxed, but she sure didn't even think about lunging at the dog again. I'm still not sure if I want to take her back there though.

Am I just being overly sensitive? What would you do?

Sorry for the long post. I'm just confused.

Not sure that I would want some 'stranger' putting heavy corrections on my dog.

Just curious....Maybe I am confused but, I don't understand, are you not handling your own dog during the classes? Is this normally the way these classes are conducted?

No one lays a hand on my dog.







dogs yo

No, I'm handling her. He was trying to help me by demonstrating how to handle a timing issue that I was having a problem with. That is not an uncommon thing in a class atmosphere.

I mentioned a previous bad experience to him during our evaluation and he was completely understanding. The bad experience was when a different trainer corrected her in the way you describe and I was really pissed about it. So he knows that i won't let anyone handle her unless we know them and I actually need help.

This was our third class and fifth time meeting with him, first time that I handed him the leash. The incident with the little dog happened after.

Like I said in my original post, I don't have any problems with how they have treated us so far, and I have only gotten good stuff out of what I have learned there. I just was kind of freaked by what I saw with the other two dogs.

The truth is they may never have to handle my dog again, since she is already basically trained and doing really well in the class. 99.9% of the time I can handle her myself without issue.

We are mostly there to help me get out of some bad training habits, proof obedience, and get her around other dogs in a controlled environment. She seems really comfortable there despite the stimulating environment.

If this place wasn't recommended to me over and over, I probably would not even be asking this question. I would just not go back.

It could be that since our area has gone so clicker happy that they get more tough to handle dogs than other places. I'm just not sure. Is the kind of handling I saw with the little dog ever warranted?

You probably weren't planning to, but I would never leave my dog there without me. Ever.

There's correction, and there's abuse. In my mind, correcting a dog so it defecates (not just submissive urination) is going too far. The dog's mind was not learning. It terrified, and probably went into a survival mode of first fight, then flight, then give up and accept the worst. Maybe that's what they were after, that completelty spiritless giving up, but there is almost always a better way.

This is just my gut speaking.

Thank you for your reply Keirsten.

Your feeling is my feeling.

Its a hard call to say that someone who knows a million times more than you is doing something wrong. The little dog has a bite history, and I wasn't really sure if the handling was extreme for the circumstances.

I'm just a dog owner with an interest in dog training. I have never owned a dog with a biting problem, and I have never witnessed anything like that before.

I wish Leerburg and Michael Ellis would get together and open up a chain of obedience schools. It seems that everything out there is at the extremes! I would never ever leave her with anyone except my dad or our first trainer. They are the only people that I would ever trust completely. The only reason I am not in his class is because it is on a night that I have to work.

I will say, not necessarily in defense of the trainer but just saying, I have grooming and boarding clients that poop first and foremost when overwhelmed. What prompts it can be walking in the door of the kennel or being put in or taken out of a crate. Some dogs have no socializing and therefore go into overdrive very quickly. Heck, I had a shih tzu pee, poop, scream and lunge 18inches up to open up my thumb....all because I pulled her leash to bring her out of a crate. I have a BC mix kenneling right now that if I look at him he will soak the kennel with pee. He will poop if I open the kennel without giving him an escape...ie, opening the other end of the kennel for him.

Personally if someone wants to correct my dog they had better have my permission. The last and only time I gave it was with a trainer that said I shouldn't let my Bullmastiff lay down while waiting at heel. I had walked her out of the down to bring her to sit and was tired of doing it. I am NOT training for competition so I let it go. The trainer came over and lifted the pup by the skin on the sides of her neck. Lunk, being a 8 month old drama queen, howled, moaned like she was dying and threw herself flat on her side. That was productive.

I am with Lauren....a chain of obedience with Ellis methods.

Ok, so I have thought about more. Logically since I haven't had a bad experience YET, I'm still on the fence.

But my heart is telling me not to go back there

Anyone have a really good trainer or behaviorist in MA? I have been able to hold this problem at bay, but I need to work on fixing it before it escalates. I don't feel like I know enough to deal with it on my own.

I would prefer someone who deals with behavior modification using balanced training methods, but leaning heavily toward positive.

Thanks

Lauren, if your heart is telling you not to go back there then maybe you should listen to it. I read that you spoke to the trainer prior to starting class, have you tried this again since the events unfolded that are making you uncomfortable? I have quit classes due to trainers or just the mix of dogs, it wasn't conducive to our learning, waste of money but felt more harm than good would come out of it.

I think I missed the problem at bay, your comfort level with the trainer or with the dog that you are working on? Not from your area, no trainer recommendations but have you done a google search in your area for trainers with certifications?
Certification Council for Professional Dog Trainers

 Quote:

I have been talking obedience classes with Tasha, mostly for proofing and controlled socialization with other dogs. We have some early dog aggression going on, and I'm seeing real improvement using the advice of the trainers there. I am also seeing progress in her basic obedience and major progress in engagement.

Because it looks like you're doing fine, I would go, but just not ever hand off the leash.