Hi Guys

Does anyone else have a GSD who "talks"?

This is a serious question now. My 5 year old male GSD has a wonderful temperament. Great with kids, Aloof with other dogs, no avoidance, no submission, no snarling, no uncalled for dominant behaviour, although he is the alpha male in our kennel. If another fear agressive dog snarls and growls at him he stands still, relaxed, mouth open - tongue hanging out, head up, ears up and ignores the other dog even at close quarters. Totally steady with gun fire, fireworks etc.

He has tons of prey drive, has actually leapt through the air at a menacing intruder to the property, impressive on the sleeve, outs when commanded etc etc.

This dog was recently placed last in a conformation show (United Kingdom) because he "growled" at the judge during the teeth examination. Now, I may be a bit kennel blind about this dog so this is why I'm asking if anyone else's dog does this:

This dog "talks" I know what he sounds like when he growls and it is a much more rumbly and deep sound with his lips curled up. When he talks he makes a sound like a long deep moan and moves his mouth to vary the pitch. He does this when puppies are bothering him yet keeps his mouth wide open and lets them put their whole head inside his mouth. His whole demeanour is relaxed when he does this and he always has means of escape to get away from the pups if he wants to - but he chooses to stay and even lays down (not on his side) so they can reach better. They lick his teeth and he seems to like this. BUT he makes this strange sound (that I just tried to describe) that to some people I guess sounds like growling.

I just think it was so sad that the judge thought he was growling. Anyone else experienced this??

Thanks

My female "talks" its usually when she thinks it is time to do something and I dont, like go to bed or go on a walk or such- its either a high pitched whine or a low mumbling noise- She does it most often when I tell her to "platz" she goes down immediately but will usually throw in the mumbling, granted she only does this at home- in public she is picture perfect. That stinks that the judge misread it, but it may not hurt to have someone who has not met the dog before observe the behavior to let you know how it sounds to them-

Kind of an OT question but does your KC accept the working titles? Do you have the same type of seperation of the breed that we see here in the states? The AKC wont recognize ony of the working titles so I think its neat that you are doing both with your dog-

Good luck in the future-

My male talks too. It's more like he's sassing or back talking me though <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Really quite cute, because he usually does it when I won't let him do something that he wants to do or when I want him to do something he doesn't want to do. It doesn't get him anywhere, but it's adorable...I think it gives him personality <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Maybe he is trying to tell you that he hates conformation shows. . .and lame ass judges.

With good reason I'm sure. . . <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

VanCamp:

But how do you realy feel? LOL.

Thanks guys

Yeah he also does the deep talking thing as an "answering back" attitude thing too but no way is it a growl! I agree - it adds personality <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

GSDSAR: The UK Kennel club does not consider a dog a champion unless it wins at a conformation show. On the pedigrees it provides, it only prints the International or UK champions in red. All the German Siegers are in black like any other dog! Working titles are printed on the pedigree but it means nothing to the kennel club! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

There is a split in the UK, although at present it only seems to be showing in the temperament rather than the appearance. However, UK bred show lines seem to be developing a bit of a roach and too steep croup. Temperaments of UK bred show dogs are pathetic! There are many fear biters and nervous wrecks <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

I breed imported German show with a sprinkling of working lines (which I'd like to increase) and don't touch the UK lines with a barge pole!!

People here are starting to hear about terms such as "high drive" and "working ability" and there are some judges who do look for this at shows (except they don't know what they are looking for <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> ). These are truly the Lame Ass Judges VanCamp!!! I agree !!!

We also have German SV judges regularly judge the GSD championship shows. At these shows this is what UK show breeders do:

Leave their dog in the car in a cage parked close to other dogs in cars and next to a walkway where lots of people with other dogs will pass. Leave it there barking it's head off until it is called for it's class so that it will be so frustrated and manic by the time they let it out that it looks like a choking mad thing in the ring, jumping up, fighting the lead, slipping it's chain and running all over the place.

"This type of dog obviously is what the judge prefers" (it seems to the show breeders) and is their interpretation of high drive. The judge couldn't possibly check the rear and front movement as the dogs are being dragged back and forth with their front legs in the air!!

No GSD in this state of mind is suitable for any of the working tasks it is meant to perform. It is encouraging people to breed dogs that look like this in the ring and nothing else. Where is the aloofness, the calm focus and, yes, the drive ... but this isn't prey drive or defense or fight - just manic, get me out of here drive!

Just because a dog has been trained and hyped up to run round in a circle like a mad thing does not mean it has the correct temperament for it's original purposes and neither does it mean the dog is high drive.

How you can assess a dog's gait when it is dragging the handler round the ring and therefore almost has it's belly on the floor is a mystery to me! Gaiting should be smooth and efficient and free flowing not bobbing up and down straining to break into a gallop and yet these dogs are lauded as being "well up for it"

What a joke <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Anyway, I pay lip service to the conformation ring and concentrate on schutzhund with my big male and a local helper(using mainly Ed's tapes and this board) <thanks all> , Obedience and tracking with my older bitch and agility with my younger bitch. I've kept on a male from our last litter to also eventually do schutzhund with.