My 18 month male GSD wants to establish dominence on any male dog it encounters as well as females. Be it on a walk or the neighbors dogs or the dogs in the same home. He seems to think that every dog he encounters is part of his pack. Once the other dog submits he becomes nice and friendly towards the other dog. One neighbor has a 20 month old male corky and the other neighbor has a 16 month old female lab. Both of them are best buddies with my GSD, however every morning he seems to have to re-establish his dominance over them (fence yards by the way so this through the fences) by bullying them to roll over and submitt. Once this is done thing are back to fun and games. The neighbor that has the female lab has friends staying over and with them came a male lab, perhaps 2 maybe younger. My GSD and the black lab have been fence fighting for two days now. Each time the male lab submitts. The time it takes to finally submitt gets shorter and shorter. Once rank is established they all play together along the fence and no signs of aggression. Until recently I could give him a leave it command and he would disengage in an instant. Now when he is fence fighting the other male, nothing I do will disengage him. In fact as I get closer to the fence and the other dog, the more violent my GSD becomes toward the other dog. He totally ignore any command I give him. I have to drag him away. If he had a pich collar on I could correct him but I do not want to have him run loose in the back yard with a pich collar. The male lab with probably be going back home in a couple of days. I would think this is just plain dog to dog agression but once dominance is established all is peacefull. Also since he is now 18 months old, I assume his male hormones are quicking in. As for the other dog in the household well they are best friends except first thing in the morning when the GSD seems to have to pin him down before even going outside to do their business. I might also add that this GSD was the alpha male of a litter of 8, 5 of which were males and the breeder has describe this same behavior when he was with his litter mates. So is this just gog on dog agression or is my GSD thinking he is the alpha male of every dog he sees? How can I recan control of this behavior?

actually sounds like a confidence issue to me. the more dominant a dog usually the less you see the behavior you are describing. When lacking in confidence they have to 'show' everyone how bad they are. Kind of like people...hehehe

I would be curious to hear how he plays with toys. How often he shakes his head. Another sign of confidence.

as for shaking toys, he often shakes the toy no matter what toy it is. he usually pounces on the toy I throw for him and violently shakes the toy. As for playing tug he clamps shut on the tug and shakes as he fights playing tug. Once he has the tug he shakes it violently. Just now we had an obedience session in which I placed him on a long down in which I downed him along the fence. He stayed in the down position even when approached by the two dogs next door. I then placed in a down on the opposite fence line of the male lab. I stood about 10 feet from the male lab and recalled my GSD. He flew right by me and started fence fighting with the male lab. I gave him a firm correction. When I did that he tried bitting at me for the correction. This time I gave him a more severe correction. We repeated the excercise, this time a perfect recall and then a perfect finish. We repeated this several times. He received tons of praise and rewards. As for his behavior of trying to bite back when given a firm correction, it has occured several times in the past including when the training director tried to correct him. She in turn gave him another hard correction for his behavior. She expects alot of rank problem with this GSD. He does not tolerate correction. It is not a reaction to pain but rather he does not like to be corrected. By that I mean a severe correction or a light correction results in the same reaction from him. I most cases he does well and does not require correction (as in obediance routines). Where our problem lies is with his bullying of other dogs. Also another concern is that he is becoming a very strong and massive GSD. He is a solid (as in lean not fat, but atheletic as my vet says of him) 96 pound dynamo. He is also very bull headed as a mule. He seems confident on his turf and off of it, he approaches strangers without hesitation, he approaches new thing without hesitation (briges, elevators, escalators and so on). If this is lack of confidence could it be just in socializing with other dogs? Oh one more thing that may or may not be of importance. The helper stated that this GSD, was a serious dog on the field. The helper stated that he was not playing but rather really wanted to hurt him. Unfortunately the club has since disbanded so I am on my own on this.

Note from post....
The helper stated that this GSD, was a serious dog on the field. The helper stated that he was not playing but rather really wanted to hurt him.

I think what Tod was saying is while doing prey agitation if the dog continues to try to kill the (sack/tug) prey item by swinging his head after its released numerous times, the dogs may lack confidence.

A lot of time if a dogs has weak nerves it bites, because it feel it has to, if it can't avoid the situation. This dog could be seen as a hard biter because its bitting out of fear.

This may not be the case with your dog, it could be you have a rank problem, which means you may have a lot more to work with if you are up to the challenge.

He does have a very firm bite and does not show the chewing that I have seen others do. I though that weak nerved dog do not bite hard and firm as confident dogs do. I may also add that often times he will not "out" the item be it the sleeve or tug toy. He play is very violent and he does get carried away in play. This is true even as a little puppy. If he were human I would say he has no sense of humor and takes everything too seriously. It has been a constant power strugle with him. Seems I gain control and then we are back to square one. He will steal food right out of the mouth of other family member or right off their plate. Firm corrections and the problem ceases. Several months go by and once again he steal food or bullies for attention. He also does not want any other family dogs to get near me. If they come near me he pushes them away, almost herding them away. I have to put him in a down or put him in his kennel so that I can give the other dog attention. It is like he wants the whole world to revolve around him. I read Ed's articles again on dominant dogs and how to deal with them and clearly see his description in Ed's articles.
As for the new dog next door, well it seems that they have settled their pecking order. The male lab goes into avoidance whenever my GSD approaches (tucks tail and runs off and hides and comes out only when the GSD is back in the house). My worry is that one day he is going to run into a dog that is not going to submit to his bullying. Like I said he has been a constant challence since I have had him (8 weeks). Also I have no problem taking food or toys away from him

It looks like he does see you as the Alpha, for a short while. Its always difficult taking food or their toys from a dominate dog, unless he is trained to "out" or "leave it". And if he/she is not trained it can be a real fight.

With working dogs some strong behaviors we will have to accept, the way my dog prance when he wants to play or knocks on the door when he wants in makes people think he's dominate, but GSD just knocks on the door a little different then a collie.

But taking food from other family member out of their mouth, plate or their hand is a "no no". He's getting too big for his brichets there.

I will train with him in a down and tell him to leave it, wait 15 seconds starting out then on command "get it", release him to get the treat. This is hard for a dominate, really any dog to do. But we practice this everyday almost same drill when they are served dinner, on command.
Sounds like you got your hands full, it will be fun and a struggle. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Originally posted by Goodogu:

I think what Tod was saying is while doing prey agitation if the dog continues to try to kill the (sack/tug) prey item by swinging his head after its released numerous times, the dogs may lack confidence.
So a dog that does this lacks confidence or is confident? How can he build the dogs confidence? Thanks.

Originally posted by philippe:
My worry is that one day he is going to run into a dog that is not going to submit to his bullying. I'm far from the dominant GSD expert on this forum, but Phillipe, you are absolutely correct to be concerned about that. You have got to understand this about your dog and control every interaction he has with other dogs. You'll need to have serious control over him for the rest of his life. This is how he is.

Something to keep in mind with the dominant dog is: Consistency is crucial. This is the kind of dog that will take a mile if you give him an inch. Don't *ever* relax the rules, even if he shows improvement. For example, any time anyone is eating, put him in a downstay on his mat, and DO NOT let him up. Do this ALWAYS.

Also, I wouldn't LET him establish a pecking order with the dog next door. Sorry, but it's YOUR territory, NOT your dog's. Continue the obedience drills with the dog on the other side of the fence. Teach him to ignore the other dog. He should focus on YOU and what YOU want him to do, not what HE wants to do.

This doesn't mean you have to be a dictator or a drill sergeant. You can be a nice guy about it; just be firm and insist that he follow the rules. As I said, it's the consistency that really counts here.

I could be off base, as I said, I'm not an expert. Maybe I got some of it right though?

Ditto with L.
If you have him under control, there is absolutely no reason he should ever run into a dog that won't submit, because you won't allow him to dominate, He just may not be a dog that you can socialize with other dogs.

Ricky

In prey drive the dog should be having fun, it should see this as play and no more.So he should not feel threaten in prey drive (this is the most relaxed drive to work in), so the dog lacks confidence, if he behaves threaten. A medium stressed dog will shake the prey item just a couple of time.

There is a time in training that shaking the head while on the sleeve is desired. This is in defense drive/fight drive, its approipate at this time because there is a preceived threat.

There are several ways to build a dogs confidence
Ob, agility, socailization and bite work training can build it's confidence. All this training stuff really adds up to spending time with the dog, some dogs need a job to do. Most working dogs lack confidence due to their genetic, socail or enviromental upbring. Some of the resident experts may give you more details on how to build confidence, in your dog or a dog. But you will have to post the specfics.
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I feel that Phillipes problem with his dog is a rank problem and the dog is not sure of his pack position, as just a lower member or the next Alpha if he gets rid of Phillipes.
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Keeping a dog chained up and not spending any time with it is the worse thing to do to a dog.