i'm new to the board and wanted to get some advice on my situation.

i have a 2 year old male beagle named moby and a 2-3 year old female beagle named polly. we got moby when he was 8 weeks old and aside from him having a few accidents in the house, his behavior is just great.

we started volunteering at an animal shelter and when a female beagle came in, we instantly fell in love with her. we had moby and polly meet prior to us bringing her home and all seemed to be just fine. polly came into our home just in time for moby's 1st birthday.

we were aware that there would be problems with the dogs getting along and were prepared to deal with it. we ended up learning through our mistakes. there were only a few food aggression issues at first which resulted in the first bite inflicted by polly. i was a bit shaken up but still determined to work with her and make it work.

there were quite a few fights between the two but moby is submissive through and through. polly eventually put him in his place and he doesn't really challenge her very much if not at all.

i think that because polly put moby in his place, she move onto me and my girlfriend jess. i don't really feel that she struggles with me but instead, does with jess. i feel that she's constantly trying to challenge jess so that she can be dominant over her. if jess ever yells at her, she immediately shows her teeth and has snapped. we scold her by yelling at her and not giving her any attention for a while.

it seemed like polly was going through phases. she is spayed but i tell you what, she puts you in mind of a human female when we have pms.

we have had the founder of the animal shelter come over to try to help us. the only problem with polly is that something will work with her for a while and then she finds a way to get what she wants.

we finally decided to take her to a behaviorist. the first visit went well but we were basically told that we need to stop changing our routine so that we don't piss polly off.

we started to work with polly. she understands sit and off but getting her to always get off of something doesn't always work. we basically have started to really enforce that she won't get anything for free. i has appeared to work in some situations but in others, she ignores it. for instance, she'll jump on the sofa. we will tell her to get off. then we will tell her to sit and after she does, we invite her up. instead of coming up, she walks away basically saying, "kiss off. i will do it if i want to...not because you said i can." she does this in various situations including when we feed her. i must add that lately she has gotten better when it comes to eating -- for the past 2 days, she has actually eaten her food when we give her the okay rather than running off under the bed.

after the first visit with the behaviorist, we noticed that her ears were really red. after taking her to the vet, she did have an ear infection so we were given some drops for her. in the past, polly never had much of a problem when it came to cleaning her ears or her teeth. she wouldn't really let us mess with her feet but someone else would have to clip her nails for us. i'm not sure if it was the drops or because her ear was really sensitive but she would NOT let us put the drops in her ear. i think it may be the drops because the cleaning solution is always kept at room temperature but the ear drops have to be stored in the fridge and then be put in both ears twice a day.

since polly wouldn't let us put the drops it without trying to bite, jess brought home a muzzle from work (she works at the local animal control in the office). the muzzle worked fine the first time but after that, she would bite the muzzle and try to destroy it. we were upset and didn't know what else to do because she had to have these drops in her ears. i called the behaviorist and one of her staff members recommended giving her an extra special treat -- maybe a hot dog or peanut butter. so we put peanut butter on a spoon and yay -- it worked and has been working even up to today.

we did reschedule or follow-up visit to an earlier date so that we could discuss this as well as polly's progress. the 3 of us talked and basically the behaviorist recommended that we give polly back to the shelter. basically she feels that since polly was fine in the shelter, it may very well just be the environment that she's in today.

there were different things she noticed about polly when she met her. we do believe that polly was abused prior to coming to the shelter. there are burn marks on the back of her neck that many think came from a shock collar or 2 put at the highest setting. there are only 4-5 and just in that location so we don't feel it is from a prong collar.

she also could sense polly's dominance just in the way that she carries herself. she also thinks that polly may have been the only female in her litter and she may very well be a male dog trapped in a female body.

she is suggesting that polly be placed in a home with someone with the same "kiss off" attitude that she has and doesn't feel that we have it in us to give her the discipline that she needs.

we were very upset to say the least. i don't feel that the behaviorist is wrong in her observations because if she felt there was a chance, i'm sure she would like us to keep coming back rather than saying to give her back and not spend the money on trying to fix it.

i keep struggling though wondering if we didn't give it enough time. but we have had her for a year now. some have said that if she hasn't gotten better yet, she never will. i have spoken to the shelter and they will take her back and luckily it is a no kill shelter so i know she won't be put down. we still have her for the meantime because they are full at the moment and i wouldn't expect to just throw her out tonight anyway.

it was this past monday that we learned of all this but now as i read the tips on this website and see that she may just be showing some progress, i can't help but wonder if there is some chance that she just might improve.

i emailed the behaviorist yesterday with this very question and asked if she feels that maybe she will get better with some more consultations and working with her. it may take a bit longer but i'm sure she will respond.

i guess what my question is is do any of you feel that polly may get better and should i keep trying? is there anything that you would recommend? i love this dog and want very much to make it work but i also want to do what's in the best interest of everyone involved including her and moby.

in the meantime, the founder of the animal shelter has suggested that i purchase rescue remedy for her. i did and it should arrive in a couple days. of course some that know polly don't feel this will work but i'm willing to try anything at this point.

any advice will be greatly appreciated. i'm really sorry that this is so long but i guess it's best to tell the whole story rather than bits and pieces, eh? thanks again...

Sounds like you are making some classic handling errors that are exacerbating the problems you have. First, never feed the dogs at the same time together. Some people will argue that it works for them, but if your having problems then don't. I believe every dog is entitled to eat his meal in peace. Second, if you are allowing the dog on the furniture etc. it starts to believe that that is it's place and will begin challenging you for it. Don't allow the dog on the couch. Your the alpha, it's your couch, you get the best seat in the house not the dog. Third, have your girlfriend get more involved with the obedience training on this dog. Dog acts up, then it goes in the crate to settle down. Keep the obedience sessions fun and rewarding for the dog, use treats or a favorite toy. Fourth, I cannot think of one dog that enjoys ear drops. I hate when my vet presrcibes them because they are a serious pain in the butt. There is a helpful article on dog dominance on this site, use the search tool and you should find it pretty easily. It sounds like you love the dog so with some patience and time I believe it can be rehabilitated. Sounds like the dog has been through a lot so don't expect things to happen overnight. JMO

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if jess ever yells at her, she immediately shows her teeth and has snapped. we scold her by yelling at her and not giving her any attention for a while.

I'm of the opinion that yelling at the dog is not a constructive discipline technique.

With pushy dogs, I think it's far better to keep your cool. These dogs need firm, confident leadership, and using threat displays such as yelling communicates to the dog that you are not secure in your position as a leader.

If she was abused prior to your adopting her, as you think she was, then yelling would be extra inappropriate for her, as it appears to trigger a defensive reaction.

Keep in mind that there are different types of teeth-baring. A submissive grin and an offensive pucker. Are you certain that Polly is not offering submissive behavior, but snapping out of fear?

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we were basically told that we need to stop changing our routine so that we don't piss polly off.

I agree with this, however not in order to avoid pissing her off, but rather, that I think Polly would benefit from having a consistent, predictable routine with consistently enforced behavior expectations (enforced firmly but CALMLY).

Polly doesn't sound like a dog who really WANTS to be dominant. It sounds like she wants and craves leadership, but that you are not providing it.

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she'll jump on the sofa. we will tell her to get off. then we will tell her to sit and after she does, we invite her up. instead of coming up, she walks away basically saying, "kiss off. i will do it if i want to...not because you said i can."

Are you certain you are not misreading Polly's response? You're really sending her some mixed signals. She follows your command to get off the couch, she obeys your command to sit, deferring to your authority, but then you do a complete 180 and want her to get back on the couch? Perhaps her walking away is an avoidance behavior because she is confused/stressed, and not really a "kiss off" attitude at all.

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basically the behaviorist recommended that we give polly back to the shelter. basically she feels that since polly was fine in the shelter, it may very well just be the environment that she's in today.

I have really mixed feelings about this statement. First, lots of really messed up dogs appear "fine" at the shelter. How the dog behaves at the shelter does not give a complete picture of how the dog will behave once integrated into a new environment. On the other hand, I think she may have a point that something about the environment that Polly is in now is exacerbating her problems, and that a different home with a person who can handle Polly appropriately may be more suitable for Polly.

I do not think Rescue Remedy is going to solve Polly's problems. I think what will help Polly are some changes in the way you handle her and an adjustment in your expectations of her. When you adopt an animal from a shelter, you don't always get the "perfect" problem free dog. A lot of them come with baggage that you can work hard to change, sometimes successfully, but some of which you just have to accept as part and parcel of who they are.

Of course, I'm making all of these comments without ever having seen Polly or met you, so my thoughts aren't really worth much.

she may very well be a male dog trapped in a female body.
If this is typical of the advice your behaviorist gave you I strongly suggest you try somebody else. Keep in mind that most anybody can call themselves a traner or behaviourist. If you get foolish advice and poor results you need to keep searching. The idea of having your dog work for rewards is a good idea but it's being poorly implimented. Your dog should have to respond obediently before receiving food, affection, toys or play time. But allowing a dominant dog on the furniture or bed puts them closer to your physical level. That sends the wrong message. Perhaps somebody else can help you determine if this dog truly is dominant. Running to hide under the bed doesn't sound dominant. If your dog is actually reacting out of fear then treating her like a dog with dominance issues could be triggering some of the problems.

90% of the people out there calling themselves behaviorists are con-artists. A certified behaviorist is a veterinarian that has received additional training and board certification. Even this isn't the best option, since most of their schooling has been medical and not behavioral. It sounds like you have found one of those 90%.

I agree with Pamela's comments. From your description of Polly's behavior, I can just as easily read fear into it. People really like to slap the "dominant" label on dogs that don't behave as they would like them to, because surely the dog is misbehaving out of defiance. This dog has physical scars, runs and hides under the bed, defends herself when yelled at; those things do not sound like a "dominant" dog to me.

Lauren,
Actually, one does not need to be a veterinarian to be a certified behaviorist, and there are different levels of certification:

http://www.animalbehavior.org/Applied/Pamph3N-Jan2002.htm

But I would agree that if one is to seek help from a "behaviorist", that they check credentials and get references. Just as with hiring a trainer, any bozo can hang out a shingle, so buyer beware.

i just wanted to reply to the comments regarding the behaviorist that we are seeing. she was recommended to us by the anti-cruelty society of chicago, IL and i will provide a link so that you can review her background.

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/jemyers4/narnia/sandy.htm

i know that it's hard to get the full story when it's online. i know that i have summarized everything that sandy has told us about polly as well as her behavior.

that's not to say that i don't value your opinions or suggestions. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> i just wanted to say that we want to try to help polly so we were very picky in our choice as to who to take her to.

Originally posted by Lisa Swanston:
Lauren,
Actually, one does not need to be a veterinarian to be a certified behaviorist, and there are different levels of certification: But it takes a PhD to be certified, and a master's to be an associate. That's a far cry from a 5 day course or other such nonsense that most people claim makes them qualified.

There are two distinct parts to fixing problems. Identifying the problem and creating a solution. In my experience behaviorists are better at IDing than solving. If this woman isn't helping then a second opinion can't make things any worse.