Hi

In the last 24 hours my EP bitch and my Bb bitch got into the mother of all fights, I had taken the two of them and the neutered male Bb out, leaving the old EP and pup at home, road walked them for 30 mins then went over the fields to burn off a bit more energy, the usual scenario is I let the pointer off first as she likes to quarter and go through the rough to do her thing, then I let the boerboel bitch go once the pointer has got a head start, as the boerboel goes after her like a lion would go after a gazelle, trying to bring her down from the back, and what usuallyhappens is the bb catches her up, they go nuts for a few minutes, then the pointer drops a gear and scorches away, bb returns to me, game over, however yesterday, because there was a tractor ploughing in the next field I kept them near me, and what I realise now was a stupid thng to do, I started chucking stones for them to retrieve, the pointer got it, the boerboel wanted it, tried to take it and all hell broke loose, obviously the bb has the weight and the bite capacity over the pointer and connected several times before I waded in and broke it up, I chained them together and made them walk up hill the long way home, which they did calmly and steadily and I just ignored the looks of alarmed passers by watching a blood stained woman marching 2 of her 3 blood stained dogs up the road at double time, I was mortified.

Once home I crated them seperatley, checked them over, pointer has a nasty bite on the neck, boerboel had bitten her own tongue, both very pleased with themselves and far from shaken or upset, I gave it a couple of hours then let them sniff each other through the stair gate, then opened the gate, the pointer went straight back for more, so then seperated them for the rest of the night, and of course knew there and then they cannot share a crate anymore, this morning, repeated the sniffing first, then opened the gate and they sniffed each others butts, heads down, tails up,and then the pointer started her tap dance, which is her invitation to play usually, but the hackles went up on the boerboel and I seperated them once again, when they are behind the gate they don't bark or growl at each other, but it feels like the pointer wants a re-match to hand the boerboel her arse on a plate, and in return, I feel the boerboel is thinking she is ready and able to take the top dog position in the pack and that the pointer can just jog on.

I spoke at length to my breeder who I got the boerboels from, and got lots of really good advice regarding, excersise, kenneling, feeding, high value toys/bones etc, re-asserting myself daily as boss and being vigilant about segregation when they can't be supervised, none of what she told me is un-achievable, all of it sensible and logical, and I will damn well make this multi dog house work, my dogs, my responsibility.

What occured to me mulling it over today, is that I naively thought was my big problems would start with the two male boerboels once the 9 month old pup hit the teen phase, dominating the neutered 15 month old male, and I was mentally prepared for that, WHY I didn't consider the bitches turning from great mates into hating each other on the flip of a coin, I do not know, I feel quite stupid and slightly sad at the turn of events, I will get a grip, no option there, but I wondered if anyone has had this happen and how you dealt with it, and more to the point if the situation can and did get better as they age further.

Thanks
Tracey

Good luck. If it were me, and it has been with other breeds of dogs and two bitches, I would separate them and keep them totally separated. Every time they have the opportunity to fight they will untrain themselves and intensify their hatred. I doubt very much the Boerboel will let this go if she is hitting teens. And likely it will get worse before it gets better. Total separation, crates, rooms, times of freedom. I recently lost an 11yr old Border Collie who for the past 6 years could not be out near the other BC bitch. The past year we could allow it under supervision as one was getting dementia and not keying the other. But five years of shuffling in and out of crates and rooms has taught me never to get two bitches of similar size or drive again. And yes, both these were spayed with no effect on their hatred. I miss Kelsey, but have to say I enjoy the lost tension and peace since her passing.

I personally have never had two males hate each other. My sister has had two intact males do so, one is just a hateful idiot. Once she neutered the idiot it has dropped off a great deal in a short time. Usually in my own experience males fight but can get over it and be trustworthy again.

Yes the boerboel is really well into that testing age, and while the pointer isn't ga ga yet, I have taken on board that the bb will take her place in the very near future, I am on it and very vigilant, the boys do seem to get on more peacefully, as you no doubt know the bb is very dominant and that is one of their traits I love, they are a daily challenge and I embrace that in them, I just want to protect my pointers from the full on boerboel temperement,and I acknowledge that will take all my time and attention, I think that is the minimum they can expect from me, as you also no doubt know the pointer is biddable to the point of easy street, but my girl pointer has plenty of attitude, I think its the red in her, but I have to admit she is more tricky than both my bb males and my ep male, hard work, but how ordinary would our lives be without our canine challenge on a daily basis, thank you for taking the time to reply, I do appreciate it.

Tracey

Tracey,
did i read it right in the first post.

The two females were sharing a crate?

I don't think this is something you can change...but you can definately make the situation livable. You can't teach two dogs to get along...it just doesn't work (im not saying that to you, im sure you already know that)

Seperation right now is the best solution.
And in many cases it is the only solution once a fight has broken out.

They may learn to accept being around one another, but only in your presence.

Hi

Yes they have shared a crate up until now, well its more the size of an indoor kennel really, since we brought sugar home as a 9 week old pup, and up until now they have happily shared the space, spooning and cuddling up every night, our breeder visited us a few months back and expressed her concern about me doing that, I always knew the time would come, but as I say up until now it's not been a problem.

I had a bit of a break through tonight, they were both in the sitting room with me, and for the first time since the fight were relaxed around each other, that said, I was watching them like a hawk ready to jump in if neccesary. I am determined to make it work, but I realise the dynamics have now changed forever.

Regards
Tracey

Inless they really don't get along, I'd try the boy girl, boy girl thing on my next exercise/romp/training session.
Forget about the two bitches ever 'enjoying' each others company.
It may even get to the point of them willing to kill each other.

Managing it is the only option and keep them seperated when you're not around.

got two uberbitches, I'll never do that again. takes alot of pack leadership, exercise and constant vigilance to prevent them from fighting, if I'm not working them they go in seperate kennels

Yep my trainer said to apply the boy/girl principal during the evening when I am at home, she did suggest parallel walking to make them 'work' together, and on the lead they don't give a monkeys about each other, it really seems to be a territory thing, and what you said about the desire in them to kill each other? that was how it seemed yesterday, and I think had I not been as close to them as I was, the pointer would have been critically, if not fatally injured, the boerboel really was in the red zone, she did capitulate when I waded in, but without me being there i doubt I would still have my girl pointer today, it was a nasty fight.

Regards
Tracey

I hear that! I love their attitude, but for the sake of all their well being, I am going to be proactive about their supervision, and their kenneling.

Tracey

I have to keep two of my bitches separated at all times. My last pair was the same way. My dogs are great together, never a problem. The girls, well, there's a reason they call them what they do.

I have been crating and rotating dogs since 9/11. For some reason, that was the trigger that set up a four bitch pile up in my living room. I guess the stress of watching that on tv was too much for all of us.

Boy/boy pairs and boy/girl pairs are the only way to go.

Best wishes!