Let me first start by telling you a little about myself. My wife and I have been married a little over two years. We have to young, beautiful little ladies, and a 3 1/2 year old German Shorthaired Pointer. He's a good dog. A little hard headed at times, but that comes with the breed. For about the last year or so my wife and I have been discussing adding another member to our family. We both grew up with dogs, and both had German Shepherds at some point in our childhood. We love the breed and would decided that's what we wanted. I began looking all over the internet for breeders located around us. I found a few within a couple hundred miles that I felt were good legitimate breeders worthy of our money. I started doing research about schutzhund and french ring sport and thought that I would like to do that with our new dog. We decided on the breeder to purchase from (I don't want to mention any names) for a couple reasons. One, they have beautiful dogs all rated either V or VA. Two, all of there sires are SchIII and the most of there dams are as well. We talked to the breeder and decided on which litter we wanted to purchase from. The female is young so she is only a SchI, but she tests for SchII next spring. The sire is a dog from from a German kennel and is SchIII. She breeds West German show lines. What I didn't realize before finding this forum is what I should have been looking for is working lines. With that being said, we gave a $500 deposit and will be paying $2500 in total. After reading many posts on the forum I think I may be over paying. I don't need a dog thats going to be show quality. I have no intentions of breeding him. I'm looking for a good sound puppy with good quality parents trained in Schutzhund and with hip certifications. I do intend on doing some schutzhund work with him, but I don't need a powerhouse as this will be my first dog and a learning experience for me as much as for the dog. Ok, I'm done rambling now. Any help on the topic would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for all the wonderful info I've already received from this website.

Zach the newbie

After reading my post I think I should have been a little more clear. The questions I'm looking to get answers for are these;

How much should one expect to pay for a quality GSD in working lines and show lines?

Would I being starting off bad by just continuing with my purchase on a show quality dog with the understanding that it will probably not be a top schutzhund competitor?

If I am looking in the wrong direction, can someone please point me in the right direction of some good quality breeders somewhere near Virginia? I don't mind traveling.

Thanks again for all the help.

Zach the newbie

Zach,

I paid $1600 for Mack, my working line GSD. He is now 6 months old and doing beautifully, mostly because of the knowledge I have acquired on this forum and from Ed's DVD's. I will post pic's and a link to his pedigree some time this weekend if you are interested.

As far as Schutzhund training goes, I had all these great visions in my head of a top dog as well. I have learned alot in the four months that Mack has been with me. First off, the time comittment just to make sure that he is getting enough excersize and stimulation and basic training has been as much as I have been able to handle while dealing with a wife, three young kids, and a full time job. I have rearranged my work schedule to make sure that I can go home in the middle of my day and spend some time with him on the days when my wife is working. She is a substitute teacher, so she does not work every day. I don't think that I could uncover any more time in my life to take his training to the levels needed for Schutzhund work.

Last, while titles in his pedigree are great and dealing with a reputable breeder is a must, there is just no guarantee that the dog you choose will be able to compete in Schutzhund.

In my uneducated opinion, I do agree with the premise that a working line GSD is a better choice then a show line from the standpoint of soundness and temperment.

Good luck with your decision!

Ask the breeder about any dogs out of their kennel doing sport work in THIS country and if possible go and watch.

Have you really talked to the breeder about what you want and what your expectations are for the dog? If not I would start there.

$2500.00 seems about the high end of average for show lines. If the Parents are VA it's about normal I think.

Hi Zach, Welcome to the forum. Like you, I found Leerburg a bit later than I wish I had, although you don't actually have your dog yet and I did. Falcon is a German Showline dog whom I love and who is a great dog, however, knowing what I know now, I would not have purchased a showline dog. Working line breeders (good ones) are not concerned with how pretty a dog is or how "well" it moves around a show ring - they breed to keep intact the working abilities of the breed.

Yes, showline dogs can do fine in Schutzhund but most likely the average sl dog will never title nationally, nor are they going to have the intensity of drive which the average wl dog does (there are exceptions to every rule - we all know that). One of our other forum members, Dennis Jones, lives near me and has occassionally brought over his wl bitch to work with Falcon and I. The difference in our two dogs is significant. I'm sure part of it is ME, but there is also no denying Ericka's drive and intensity.

If I were buying a GSD today, knowing what I know now and with the intention of working that dog in Schutzhund, I would absolutley only look at wl dogs. Period. (A dog with a natural intensity and drive is going to be far easier to train than one with a moderate level of drive, btw.) A good wl breeder will be able to select a good starter pup for you, you don't have to start off with the "powerhouse". :0)

Just my two cents! Best of luck which eve way you go! Have you visited any clubs yet? There is one in Va. Beach.

I meant to ask - do you have two dogs at this time or just one?

Edited by Barbara Schuler (09/04/2010 12:57 PM)
Edit reason: question

Thanks for all the replies.

Betty- We have spoken to the breeder about what we expect from the dog. With our price of $2500 we get first choice of the litter. I'm not sure what they are charging for the other puppies, but if $2500 is on the high end of average for a dog of that caliber I would say we're getting a reasonable price. The breeder seems very knowledgeable and has also explained in some detail how she goes about matching puppies with owners, which falls in line with what I've read on here about testing puppies.

Barbara- We only have one dog right now. My wife got him before we got married and he was raised in my in-laws house with a GSD and two labs. It will probably take him some getting used to the extra guest since he's been on his on for a little over two years now, but with my new found knowledge I've received from this site and my videos I'll be getting from Ed I expect our transition with be smooth... hopefully. I've been looking for clubs around Virginia Beach and haven't had a whole lot of luck. I'm in the Navy and currently deployed so it makes meeting anybody a little difficult at the moment. Do you know the name of the club in Virginia Beach or have any contact information for anybody in the club? Thanks again for your time.

Zach,

There is a national organization which should list all clubs - I'll see if I can find that info for you.

Best of luck!

Check your PM's...

I'd look for a working lines, take the 500 dollar hit, you're going to have the dog for a long time and the chances of not getting a nervy dog or couch potato in a SL is slim. Percentages are waaaay against you. My SL has all sch 3's behind him too, LOL, doesn't mean squat.

First off , your chances of getting a good working lines dog as a pup aren't great but getting a showlines dog that you want to work is almost impossible. I own a SL and he's actually a GOOD SL and he completely SUCKS compared to my WL dogs.

 Quote: al curbow

I'd look for a working lines, take the 500 dollar hit, you're going to have the dog for a long time and the chances of not getting a nervy dog or couch potato in a SL is slim. Percentages are waaaay against you. My SL has all sch 3's behind him too, LOL, doesn't mean squat.

First off , your chances of getting a good working lines dog as a pup aren't great but getting a showlines dog that you want to work is almost impossible. I own a SL and he's actually a GOOD SL and he completely SUCKS compared to my WL dogs.

Yep. A year and a half ago I would have become very defensive about this but have "seen the light". My guy has Schutzhund IIIs all through his pedigree, but a WL dog he is NOT. If I was getting a dog KNOWING I wanted to work in Schutzhund, it would be a no-brainer.

 Quote: barbara schuler

 Quote: al curbow

I'd look for a working lines, take the 500 dollar hit, you're going to have the dog for a long time and the chances of not getting a nervy dog or couch potato in a SL is slim. Percentages are waaaay against you. My SL has all sch 3's behind him too, LOL, doesn't mean squat.

First off , your chances of getting a good working lines dog as a pup aren't great but getting a showlines dog that you want to work is almost impossible. I own a SL and he's actually a GOOD SL and he completely SUCKS compared to my WL dogs.

Yep. A year and a half ago I would have become very defensive about this but have "seen the light". My guy has Schutzhund IIIs all through his pedigree, but a WL dog he is NOT. If I was getting a dog KNOWING I wanted to work in Schutzhund, it would be a no-brainer.

Talkin 'bout my Erika? she was the happy mild puppy, the rest of the litter were little monsters