Hello,
just wondering what other people think. I am very new to training, I have seen Ed's videos Basic Obedience, Electronic Collar, Marker Training, and some others. We just got back from training with [ mod deleted pending OK from Ed about leaving in the name of the trainer.]

This was our first session. This was with our 6 year old American Hairless Terrier. We worked on Heel and Sit. I did take treats with us, three different kinds (high, medium, and low value), Bob did not want to use them though. There was no markers and no treats. He had me put Innotek Lap Dog Trainer collar on my dog (I put it on him at home per Ed's video but he wanted to adjust it so it was taken off when we got there).

Then we went out in the yard where Bob had me walk around four cones with Chili. He was stemming the dog when he "got out of line". Basically, I was to say Heel and when Chili did not stay next to my leg he kept stemming him and he instructed me to keep walking and keep pulling him into correct position until Chili complied.

I felt like the stemming made him panic at times.

I did a lot of work with Chili on walking next to me on a loose leash prior to this. I just did not use the word Heel I used Slow like Ed uses in his Basic OB video.

At one point Chili got so frustrated with this that he jumped up and bit me in my arm, not hard but just like hey, what are you doing to me? Bob said that when that happens I should hang him and showed me how he thought this should be handled ( I did not say anything but I am definitely not doing this!).

He would intermittently tell me to stop and have Chili sit. Chili has a hard time sitting in wet grass since he is hairless. So at the beginning he got stemmed several times because he would not finish his sit. After several stems he complied every time I said Sit. Again, I did a lot of marker training prior to this so he did not go into this wet behind the ears so to speak.

Bob did tell me to praise Chili when he complied with Sit.

This is our sixth trainer and so far the best one we have found. Chili has been very fearful from day one which I told Bob prior to training. What should I do? Use markers next time and tell Bob that's the way I do things? Find someone else? It takes us an hour to get there and an hour to get back and he is as expensive as heck. He has all these titles yet although I am a complete beginner I feel like in a way I know more than he does just from watching Ed's videos.

What do you guys think?



Edited by Connie Sutherland (09/11/2010 12:50 PM)
Edit reason: temporary deletion pending Ed-approval

I'm no professional, but this doesn't sound good to me. Chili has no idea what you want him to do and you're basically just correcting him every time he's not doing something right (which he has no way of telling). To him, he's just getting corrected at random times and it's going to take a while and a lot of pain and frustration on his part to finally make a connection. By then you'll probably have damaged part of the bond you have.

Have you used any marker training with Chili walking on a leash? I think it would benefit you both tremendously. An example would be having him sit on the wet grass. Instead of telling him to sit and correcting him when he doesn't (especially since it's on a terrain you know he is uncomfortable on), I would have lured him into a sit and marked and rewarded for it. He wouldn't be nearly as confused and would eventually enjoy sitting on wet grass (or at least tolerate it much better).

I'm glad you came to talk about your concerns here. You'll probably find many people leaning towards not contacting this trainer again. Others I hope will chime in with better advice than I can give.

Hope that helps!

Katie, I have done marker training on both behaviors. I felt the same way you do. I was just afraid to start ecollar training by myself knowing my dogs' issues and my inexperience. That is why I was looking for someone who knows what they are doing.

 Quote: Linda West

Katie, I have done marker training on both behaviors. I felt the same way you do. I was just afraid to start ecollar training by myself knowing my dogs' issues and my inexperience. That is why I was looking for someone who knows what they are doing.

Your gut will tell you true, Lenka.

Never stay with a trainer whose methods make you uncomfortable. I wouldn't care if the trainer was my favorite one in the world; I would still urge that you never comply with a trainer against your interior voice.

Lenka, I think you are going to be doing some serious damage to your pup if you continue using this guy. In Ed's e-collar video he shows this old school, now-known-to-be-abusive type of training and it isn't very pretty to say the least.

Let me ask you this... after this sesson where your dog was stemmed constantly for not doing what he doesn't even understand is being asked of him, and then when he tries to "tell" you by nipping at your arm in fright/panic or whatever, he is then hung... if HE could talk would he say he wanted to go back and continue learning with this guy? As silly as that question is - I want my dog HAPPY to train with me and excited about learning something new. I want to know that what I'm doing to train my dog is enriching our bond and relationship not frightening or hurting him... EVERYTHING this guy is charging you big bucks to do is going to harm your relationship, create an even MORE fearful dog and could make him shut down completely when even getting NEAR the trainer.

How old is this dog?

What specific problems/issues are you having that have led you to six trainers (and THIS guy is the best so far??? YIKES!)

Marker training works beautifully for showing the dog where/when he is doing what you want and is perfect for training heeling... are you having trouble with making this work?

Lenka, please let us try to help you with your pup. Don't go back to this freak show... JMHO. I'm going to read some of your past posts to see what might be going on and how we can help.

Thanks Connie. Chili is a dog who is genetically fearful. I want to be able to manage his issues so that he has the best pet life possible. My goals for him are basic OB and fear management. Thanks again,

Lenka

Lenka, Do you by any chance have any of the marker training videos?

Barbara,
we started ground work July 5th. Since then we have seen MAJOR improvement in Chili and I am so thankful for this forum! Chili now sits BY HIMSELF when I take him out of the crate and put the collar on. The he again sits by himself in front of the door while he waits for me to put my shoes on. I still have to say Sit outside the door but he is getting there. He is now part crate part leash in the house.

The other day he was lying on his bed outside of the crate and I was getting his dinner ready. I forgot he was out of the crate. He waited ON THE BED the entire time while I was getting, putting water in, and mixing THK without me telling him! Unbelievable since only two months ago had I done this he would have been jumping all over me in a split second!

The problems we have been having are due to our inexperience, lack of leadership, and bad advice from trainers. He bit a neighbor's kid and a visiting nurse last summer, hates other dogs, barks at everybody and everything (has been getting better), and barks in the car.

Since we started with Leerburg he has learned to walk on a leash without pulling, calmed down considerably, I have been working on OB with him, I have been desensitizing him to treadmill and nail cutting. The other day he saw another dog in a distance of about 40 ft. and started shaking but did not bark or lunge. This is an absolute miracle considering where we were two months ago.

Basically the biggest problems we are having is maniac barking when he hears any sort of noises outside, barking in the car, and I am afraid to let him close to anyone in case he decides to bite. We were very lucky the two times he bit (never broke skin) as it was, of course, our fault and it could have literally cost us our house.

I am so very thankful for any help I get here and the fact that people donate their free time to help people like me.

Lenka

I have The Power of Training Dogs with Markers. I have been using it since I got it at the end of August.

RE: training heeling. I have just been training Chili walking next to me without being too far ahead or too far behind and no pulling. No formal heeling. He has been fine on a prong and I almost never have to correct and if I do it's just a slight pull. I think that this guy has a "one size fits all" training and that's what he does in the first session so that's what he had us do.