Hi- We have an older shep/mix who we got from a shelter a little over a year ago. He had some really disturbing problems, and we considered putting him down until we found a vet who instructed me on dominance issues and then I found Ed's web site and things really started changing. Bart has really turned around (and so have we)and it is soo true that an old dog CAN learn new tricks although sometimes their owners take longer to learn... Anyway, here is my inquiry. We have always had dogs on the couches with us and in our laps and sleeping with us. We never had a dominant dog before though. Ed says no dogs on furniture and beds or even in the bedrooms. He says this will lead to dominance problems and has directed me here for answers to the following quesions.
1. My children asked,"Why can't Bart get on the couch with us to snuggle during movies if we TELL him to and it is a command?" I had had that question run through my mind also, but they voiced it. Can we have him come up with us when WE want him up and make him get off when we want him off, so it is not on his terms?
2. And what exactly is it in allowing the pet up that causes the dominance problems?
3. Also, the children would like him to sleep with them. Now he is content to sleep on his blanket in the corner of our bedroom.
Before we spoke with our wonder vet and read Ed's web site, he slept with us. It is much more comfortable with him on the floor, but the children still ask about him being able to sleep with them.
It is amazing how doing simple things like not letting him sleep with us and making him go through doorways and up and down stairs after us made such a quick and marked difference in his behavior. Thanks to any who can explain the "why" behind the fact of certain things leading to dominance, and also to anyone who can answer the other quesions--
Carolmartine

I do the same with Maggie and Max, "ON" for on the futon and "OFF" for off of what ever. but neither one of them developed a dominance issue. and I know it grosses some ppl out. but the wife and I like my bed "PreWarmed" in the winter. and I also think Ed's got the best forum and website for training in the English speaking world.

oops, ..."has" the best forum and website for training in the English speaking world. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Thank you for responding. Bart already had dominance issues, perhaps I will try "training" him to be with us or the children on the couch at our command. I think I will have to be more diligent with his regular training as I do this though, as when we slack off at all, we see it in his behavior- he gets slow to respond.
Thank you again, and if anyone has answers to my other questions, I would certainly appreciate input.
Carolmartine

ok i will take a stab at this

the sleeping with the kids thing is a bad idea because in terms of what the dog sees it is at the same level in the pack hyerarchie as the kids maybe evan a little bit further up the pecking order.

i do not know about dogs on furniture not allowed in my house but one of ours does any way and we are working at it.

but the reason you make the dog sleep in another room, or on the floor in your room is you are establishing a pecking in your pack. what you may have happen by allowing the dog to sleep with the kids is the pack order goes from black and white to grey and dogs need black and white.

in other words what you are doing right now with all that you mentioned is making the pack order
you your your husband your children than at the very bottom your dog. by allowing them to sleep with your kids you run risk of the dog thinking that it is the same rank in other words you your husband kidsdog. or evan worse dog than kids.

if your dog has dominance issues i would suggest fallowing eds advice to the T.

hope this helps. i personally do not have a dominant dog(unless a head strong teenager counts <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> ) and am going by my understanding of dog behavier.

good luck hope i did not ramble on to much

Having Bart on the furniture or bed does 2 things. It puts him on your physical level which can encourage dominance. But also think of YOUR behaviour when the dog is on the couch. Probably lots of petting and affection which the dog has done nothing to earn. When you stop petting you may be getting the nudge that tells you to get back to work. All of this is telling your dog that he is in charge. Maybe there will be a point months in the future when you can modify the rules but for now I would definitely keep Bart on the floor.

Mike,
Sounds like you know what your doing, nice post <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Thank you again for more input. I am really learning much from Ed's web site and this forum. I seem to have more questions all the time. I am going to try to write them all out in a non rambling way (very difficult for me) at a later date, but is there a place on this site that explains what dog training related terms mean? Alot of this is like learning a new language.
CM

I forgot to add that ALL the posts have been helpful- either in answering my questions, or mentioning things I have already been doing so I have found I am doing some of the right things, and also some have led me to more questioning-
as long as I am here-
does anyone have any input on this:
Bart seems like he really wouldn't mind if we never showed him affection. He spent the first 7 years of his life with a single man who worked all day- then he was left at a shelter and nobody would take him for 2 months until my husband came along. If anyone is familiar with RAD, alot of Bart's behavior when he came to us was like that of a child with attatchment disorder. Months after we got him my husband told me the reason noone would take him- they were afraid of him! We thought we might have to get rid of him, but after ALOT of prayer, I called a friend who was a vet (and also familier with RAD)- and he explained that although those parrelels were interesting, I was anthropomorphisizing (sp?). He was the one who first explained the pack order stuff and got me started in the right direction, then I found Ed's web site and got his video, now have the new training DVD also. I thought Bart just wasn't used to affection. He never drew away from it, but the only time he showed excitement about seeing us was when we came home, or when he gets up in the morning- then he wiggles all over. We can pet him and pet him forever, but he never seems to seek us out for petting. We have 5 children at home and they all love him. He will wag his tail if I speak his name, but affection doesn't really get him all excited. Now give him a ball or a stick and he goes crazy! If someone comes to the door or he sees something outside (cat or dog mostly) and he has his bark collar on, he will go get a ball or other toy to hold in his mouth. If his ball is behind a table or piece of furniture and he can't get it, he will get one of us and bark (if his collar isn't on) until we figure it out and get it. Sometime I will try to post the picture of him with his "stick" that the boys gave him to play with from the wooded area behind our house- that was before we learned all the things we were doing wrong. He loves to fetch anything, however, I keep a bunch of balls by me when we play and I don't throw again until he drops the one in his mouth at my feet, because he does not like to give up what he fetches- I know there is some training on that also, but I am just going through Ed's tape so slowly- there is soo much there! He also LOVES food and treats- they work wonderfully well in training.
We have never had a dog that didn't crave affection at least a little, and we have never had a dog that was so eager in play with toys either- or so over excited about food.
I have seen from reading other posts that some dogs have bite and food drive and probably should be treated accordingly- one post said that if a dog has high bite drive that it really needs to do something with it- in reference to my last post- these types of terms are foreign to me- is there a place that lists terms like these that I can click on and learn from?
Thanks again- CM