From the beginning
#297409 - 09/23/2010 03:34 AM |
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Question family: Even thou Chico does his commands, sit, down etc, etc. I think I know is not a bad thing, to go back from the beginning of marker training, but since I. (I). Made so many mistakes, and continue to have them, Question is. Would it be a waste of time or just continue since he knows, but blows me off sometimes, or it is not 100% effort. This is not in protection, I wish OB was as intense.
How to say this, I am not looking for perfection, but then I really am. But, is me that made the mistakes, So my big head say's; Hey maybe you can do it better since you done mess up and now you know better.
What say you? Dan
A dog is the only thing on earth that loves you more than you love yourself. ~Josh Billings
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Re: From the beginning
[Re: Danilo A. Nelson ]
#297410 - 09/23/2010 05:14 AM |
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There's nothing wrong with reviewing the basics, which I think is what you mean here. Athletes and dancers both do it all the time. And, if you think about it, training is both athletic and, in a sense, a dance between two partners -- one human and one canine.
"A dog wags his tail with his heart." Max Buxbaum
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Re: From the beginning
[Re: Danilo A. Nelson ]
#297411 - 09/23/2010 06:56 AM |
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Dan, No, I don't think it is a problem to "go back" and re-inforce or retrain - that is the beauty of using markers. IF you think you trained a behavior incorrectly and need to completely re-do, I'd do it over but with a new name. IF the behavior just needs tweeking or improving, I would keep the same work and only mark when you get exactly the position/movement whatever that you are looking for.
Work Chico when he is hungry - skip a meal if you need to and use a very high reward to get his interest in obedience up. I can't really fault him for enjoying the protection work more than OB... he's a guy!! (plus it is just more fun).
Does he like a ball or other toy which you can use as his reward for ob? Anything which might turn him on more than the food reward?
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Re: From the beginning
[Re: Danilo A. Nelson ]
#297413 - 09/23/2010 07:00 AM |
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Hey Dan, what kind of mistakes?
Blowing you off is not acceptable in my book what is the reason for this?
Is he distracted or just not wanting to do what you are telling him to do?
Does he seem to be 100% engaged with you? As in, when you go train, you ask him if he is ready or whatever cue you use and he is looking at you and really wanting what you have (toy, food, pinecone, leaf)
ScottK
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Re: From the beginning
[Re: Scott Kapphahn ]
#297416 - 09/23/2010 07:06 AM |
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Blowing you off is not acceptable in my book what is the reason for this?
Would you agree that if the training is being done with Markers, no corrections would be given for non-compliance?
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Re: From the beginning
[Re: Barbara Schuler ]
#297418 - 09/23/2010 07:44 AM |
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Blowing you off is not acceptable in my book what is the reason for this?
Would you agree that if the training is being done with Markers, no corrections would be given for non-compliance?
No, I don’t think markers are the end all to corrections, I will correct for non-compliance as soon as: (no particular order, and we have established our relationship and the rules of playing, dog always being engaged with me, playing with energy etc., has been established)
1. I see a negative mark is not getting the proper response
2. we are at that point in training with that dog
3. I know 100% it is not something I am doing wrong.
4. I trained the dog the exercise properly and he\she absolutely knows the command
But with that said, if the training is right corrections are minimized considerably. Also depends on the dog, and what you want to accomplish with that dog. My little one is just over a year, I can count on my fingers and toes the corrections she has received for non-compliance of commands.
But…Dan’s problem sounds like an engagement or motivation problem. When I said “Blowing you off is not acceptable in my book, what is the reason for this?” This means, to me, the dog\puppy is not engaged with me enough and I am doing something wrong, so time to take a step back and look at what is going on. If dog is blowing me off, I don’t have her\him with me (we are not working together as a team) and cant give commands if the dogs mind is somewhere else. Its my job at that point to figure out what is going on and fix it, maybe its motivation, maybe it is engagement, that is why I love dog training so much. Every time you screw up you learn something new about that dog and what makes them tick.
Edited by Scott Kapphahn (09/23/2010 07:54 AM)
Edit reason: added something at the end
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Re: From the beginning
[Re: Barbara Schuler ]
#297434 - 09/23/2010 10:35 AM |
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Hi Sis, good to hear from you. Last night, or say this morning I was re-watching Michael philosophy, and maybe you remember when I first started I just jump in, did not know anything about charging the mark nothing. Well with the help of some good people, I got some way of doing, just before I got a package.
So, we need tweaking, and you are right, only mark what I am looking for. for example, the here command, he is here but I can't get him to come close, even when I back up, he keeps distance, I could work with that, but nah. One thing I notice in the video, was not let them see the reward. mines was right up front.
So I would feel very good to go back, and re-introduce marker training, Chico is only seven months, so were is the fire? I said to self. Oh! my high value reward is Turkey gizzard or beef/pork heart cut up. Bragging for my Chico. Dan
A dog is the only thing on earth that loves you more than you love yourself. ~Josh Billings
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Re: From the beginning
[Re: Scott Kapphahn ]
#297440 - 09/23/2010 11:15 AM |
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Hi Scott, Also very good to hear from you. Mistakes, Platz, when I call for Sitz. as stated before, his here is not in my face here, But I almost forgot, Chico took off to challenge another dog while I had a laps in awareness, I said Chico here. he stop turn around and was at my side, he was in full gallop, unfortunately there was another occasion, but the same good results. So, maybe I am lucky? Stand could be faster. Fuzz is real good, I like it.
Blowing me off, the same HERE in the back yard. I go and get him. No excuse, maybe the heat? Place as in crate. I can understand, but no excuse. I have to push him in. not all the time, just when I think he wants some more of Dan. (Smile).
Then I sure don't like the mouthiness, as a pup was OK. not too much rules for what I want to do. but not at seven months. My training director notice "said you have to watch him, he got that look in his ayes" I have felt it, were playing tug, no target control. that is a big one. We have dance.
Are you ready, he likes to jump, watch your face. and I am not consistent with that. I can get him 100% Engage. But, Brother that calls for a lot of movements I just ain't got anymore. I have done it. But three days of pain after. Specially on the field, were plenty of distraction is. No, play is not a problem, love the ball, Frisbee, pine cones. name it; He is with it, shaking the side to side thing.
So my friend, I just believed, I can do it better the second time around. Don't worry, your buddy is not a push over, if there was any flags went up. Dan
A dog is the only thing on earth that loves you more than you love yourself. ~Josh Billings
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Re: From the beginning
[Re: Barbara Schuler ]
#297441 - 09/23/2010 11:35 AM |
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Barbara, you are right, I say nope, go get him, and repeat the objective. But how do I reconcile the miss behavior of him wanting to jump on me, paws in my face. I have corrected that, by putting him in the sitz before and after the fact, with some tug on the collar and a no. specially when I am in the power chair. It might be playing on his part, he was seventy pounds last time I weighted him, solid. I am going to do marker training. My Olympics best shot. I also going to review Mr. Frawley's Dealing with Dominant & Aggressive Dogs. Just for knowledge. Dan
A dog is the only thing on earth that loves you more than you love yourself. ~Josh Billings
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Re: From the beginning
[Re: Scott Kapphahn ]
#297444 - 09/23/2010 11:49 AM |
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Blowing you off is not acceptable in my book what is the reason for this?
Would you agree that if the training is being done with Markers, no corrections would be given for non-compliance?
No, I don’t think markers are the end all to corrections
I don't have any problems with giving a correction when needed, but would not do so when training with markers. My understanding of that training philosophy is that it is intended to be 100% positive, and the only "negative" is simply a negative marker "nope" and the lack of the reward. Never a correction in the sense of a pop, prong, e collar, etc...
We might be saying the same thing... Training with the marker system (with no corrections) but corrections afterwards for a dog who understands the commands but is simply blowing you off.
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