I was just cruzin around a doggie chat site on MSN animals and found a post that mentioned that at some parks it is required to keep dogs OFF leach to avoid aggressive behaviour!!!
I know several dogs that off leash will still be more than happy to destroy another dog!
I was always in agreeance with Ed's opinion of dog parks and the bad experiences a dog can come into contact with but to take it a step further and insisting that there are no leashes used in my mind is amazing! It was also mentioned that the park is bordered by two busy roads and there are no fences!
scheez! Can't help but wonder about the minds behind these ideas.

Generally, at an OLA, it is considered standard operating procedure to use leashes only when entering/exiting the park, but that once safely inside the gate, the leashes come off. The reason for that is that if one dog is leashed and the other is not, the leashed dog may feel more vulnerable/confined, and may be easily agitated to an aggressive state than they would be if approached by a strange dog off lead. It basically puts the on lead dog in a defensive position. If it is an off leash park, then the dogs should be off leash.
I understand and agree with Ed's opinions on dog parks *to a certain extent*. I even stopped taking my dogs for a long time, because of those very issues. I've seen way too many people with untrained or unruly, out of control dogs at the dog park.

But, since I live in a city with leash laws, often the only option I have for off lead time with my dogs is the dog park. What really works well for me is, I don't go when there are lots of dogs. Too many dogs always causes problems. I only go at off-peak times, when there are few or no other dogs present. Secondly, unlike too many people who frequent dog parks, I don't just sit there on my butt while my dogs run amuck. I walk them. I play with them. I issue commands. I keep moving on the walking trails, and I keep my dogs with me. In this way, I have been able to work on the recall with distractions in real life situations, and because my dogs are closely bonded to me, this is an activity that we enjoy TOGETHER. I have established in their minds that this isn't a free for all where they get to run around loose and carefree, this is a time for us to walk and exercise together.

It's funny too, because the people who just sit there and let their dogs run around are the same ones whose dogs won't listen to them. :rolleyes: What's not so funny is that these are the dogs who stake out territory and defend it. That's why I don't go at peak times.

There is better reason for requiring all dogs be off leash. I have seen cases of dogs playing and having the leash snap catch both dogs. The resulting fight is a real problem since you can't seperate the dogs. Leashes can also get tangled with the same result. I would question that as a policy in a non-fenced area though.

In response to what Ed Frawley wrote about dog parks in the Q&A section: I can't totally disagree with his viewpoint on dog parks however I do like taking my dog to them. The idea that you are taking a risk at dog parks by exposing your dog to the potential aggression of others is obviously a very real possibility. However, it's been my experience that when I'm out walking my dog on a leash anywhere other than a dog park that the threat still exists and I'm not sure that it exists as a lesser possibility outside of dog parks. More times than at a dog park an "un-manned", no leash dog has rapidly approached my dog with uncertain intentions. I know dog expression and behavior very well and when a dog
approaches rapidly, that leaves little time for man or animal to interpret its intentions so, suddenly you have an uncertain situation at hand. For the most part you can shew away potential aggressors and a leash certainly does it's job of making it easier to keep control of things, however I've had dogs sneak up on us that left neither my dog or I little time to react. Fortunately no harm has come from any of those encounters yet. My point is merely this, I believe that taking your dog to a dog park is as safe as anyplace outdoors and that taking your dog anywhere (even with a leash) possesses the same risk that you wrote about in your article. The fact remains that there are bad dogs running loose out there. What I like about dog parks is that you can get a sense of the general attitude of those present before they approach(for the most part) and see what kind of habits and temperament they have. If need be, I'll steer mine away from potentially aggressive dogs or just leave if I sense dog behavior that makes my dog or me uncomfortable. Common sense stuff, right? Still, there is certainly a lot of room for "but if that" and "if this" because you can not foresee all, in or outside of a dog park. My dog and I have had good experiences at dog parks and potentially aggressive experiences outside dog parks which
as you point out could possibly make a dog aggressive to other dogs for life. So I wish he wouldn't poo-poo on dog parks for that potential alone. It can happen
anywhere. The best thing anyone can do is keep your dog well trained, in command distance and know that whether or not your dog is in a leash or no leash area, there are baddogs out there.

There's more to it than just dog-dog aggression, too... you've got your yahoo element that doesn't take the time or trouble to get their dogs immunized, or doesn't mind taking a sick dog out for a romp with healthy dogs. That fact alone is enough to keep me away.

Pete Felknor

I agree with Pete. I'll take it one step further. If all the people who take their dogs to dog parks were like many of the people on this board,(know how to handle dogs or who have a basic understanding of pack behavior) then there probably wouldn't be too many problems. This isn't the case though. There are too many people who think "oh won't it be cute to let the doggies play together" or those who don't understand aggressive behavior or simply can't control their un-trained dogs. Then like Pete said, you have the yahoo element. I don't reccommend to anyone that they ever take their dog out in public off leash. Not only because of other dogs. Obviously in the day and age of sue happy people, this is not a good idea. And please, someone fence this damn park in already! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

I have taken my male to an "off leash" park, only once as it is a fair distance, and he had a wonderful time. I was very pleasantly surprised at how well behaved all of the dogs (from Bassets, GSDs, Rotties and Malamutes) were, and even better, how well behaved the owners were! A friend of mine from work who lives closer than I do, goes regularly and has never seen a problem yet, except one couple who were not there when I was, who go on occasion, and apparently get half in the bag before they go.

There’s an off leash (mandatory) dog park a few blocks from my house that I’ve visited occasionally. It’s a great place to work a dog with distractions. I start out a dog outside the park where there are few distractions and then move into the park and continue. If I work right next to the fence (on the outside) there’s sure to be a bunch of barking dogs just on the other side of the fence. Great distraction for distance work!

There’s something going on with dogs off leash that is far different from dogs on leashes. I’ve been going to this park for a couple of years and while there have been some confrontations, none of them have ever gotten beyond the heavy chest bumping and loud growling stage. Scary to look at, but the dogs don’t hurt each other.

An Internet friend of mine in Spain is doing a beginners OB/socialization class in a fenced area where he requires that all the dogs be taken off leash. These are dogs that have never met before and some of them are known to be dog aggressive. He reports that there have never been any dogs injured during these classes. If a real hard case shows up, he makes an evaluation and puts that dog out wearing a muzzle. He says that he usually can take those muzzles off after a few sessions for the REAL hard ones and on the first session for the not–so–hard–ones.

I’ve seen a couple of video tapes from those sessions (yes, of course they can edit out the bad dogs) and it looks interesting.

Another Internet friend a trainer in Louisiana, who is one of the most prolific trainers in the state. (He trains pets and makes six figures doing it, so he must be doing something right) has started doing the off leash classes as well.

The current theory as to why there is little or no aggression with these situations seems to be that the leash inhibits the behavior that the dogs would exhibit to calm the other dogs. They’re unable to send the “calming signals” while on leash.

A dog pulling on a leash in his excitement to play, can only present a frontal view of himself. Go to the park and just sit and watch. Better yet bring along a video camera so you can go back and watch what happens between two dogs meeting for the first time. There are all sorts of subtle movements that go on that speak volumes to the other dog. The submissive dog will turn sideways and allow the dominant dog to sniff him from nose to tail. He’ll stand still this whole time.

A dog on leash can’t turn sideways and so he can’t demonstrate the first stage of submissiveness. The dominant dog tries, with body language, to dominate him, but he still won’t turn sideways, so the communication breaks down and a fight ensues.

As for those folks who show up whose dogs aren’t vaccinated, mine are, so I don’t worry about them catching anything.

As for those folks who show up with the Charly Manson’s of the dog world, well, I carry a gun and wouldn’t hesitate to teach those dogs the long down if they needed it.

As for those folks who show up with the Charly Manson’s of the dog world, well, I carry a gun and wouldn’t hesitate to teach those dogs the long down if they needed it.

Lou, I like your style in this discussion!!!! Thanks for saying something that others may be afraid to say because it is not politicly correct!!!! As much as I love my pets I too would not hesitate if I felt my pets were being threatened by another dog whether or not it is on or off lead!!!!

Thought I would quickly throw in a story about a recent experience I had.

My GSD pup "Lars" is 4 months old and for some time I had been taking him to an off leash park/lake. Now when you enter the area it clearly states "Dogs must obey commands to be OFF leash" and it also says "only one dog OFF leash per person"

Now the story.....was walking my pup ON leash and was approached by a couple walking two dogs (small, terrier types) when one of the dogs droppped to the ground and stared at my pup in a very threatening manner. Well before I could blink the dog charged in and stopped 10 inches from my pup and of course my pup got a fright!! Anyway the owners wander up and say..."its okay he always does that" I was pissed and told them so how was I to know the dog was not aggressive? It certainly looked so! Well shortly after I met up with a fellow GSD owner and I made the comment...."it sure is wild here on the weekends" (weekdays never a problem) He said yes and I told him what had happened. Interestingly enough the exact same thing happened with him and his adult GSD a few minutes after my encounter...the result was on his release command his dog pinned the charging terrier to the ground and held him there until the owners came running up screaming and carrying on. Well on my final lap home I noticed the owners of the terrier type now had the dog leashed.

The bottom line is if you cant trust your dog to mind why in hell would you ever let it off leash? I stopped taking my pup here for the safety reasons and I hope the charging incident is just a blurr in my pups mind......I know one thing for sure I will not be so unsure next time, I will deal with the dog and then deal with the owners later.

Some folk are so irresponsible it makes me sick...