I have a xolo in my home right now and he will be my dog for nearly a month. The owner is away and I got the dog from people he had been living with for a while before when they dropped him off the night before we had to leave for show and he was supposed to be with me for a day so I haven´t had the chance to really talk about his diet.

He eats cooked chicken and beef (usually boiled, sometimes raw) or boiled chicken with salmon soup mass run through a grinder. This sounds very limited to me. He had allergy tests done as a puppy that showed allergy to chicken and the owner told me he is not supposed to eat pork at all. The unfortunate thing is that this is pretty much all we have around- even beef is rather expensive and other kinds of meats are just wildly expensive. I wouldn´t be worried so much but his feces are heavily covered in mucus and not really firm like I have been used to with my dogs and when I start to think of it, it has been like this every time I have seen him.

And he has very little teeth. He has his molars (at least most of them) and incisors but no canines and I think only one (or two?) premolar. Adding this info to the fact that I don´t have a grinder and the kind that can handle bones other than chicken (that he is not supposed to eat) is waaaay out of my league right now.

I have looked into a few chicken free kibbles but they seem to contain chicken fat. They told me that when a dog is sensitive to chicken he can still have chicken fat but I don´t even know if that makes sense...

And the really nice thing is that we are taking him with us when we go on a two week trip to Germany to shows. But at the moment I just can´t figure out where to even start. Help!

 Quote: Jaana Aadamsoo

I have a xolo in my home right now and he will be my dog for nearly a month. The owner is away and I got the dog from people he had been living with for a while before when they dropped him off the night before we had to leave for show and he was supposed to be with me for a day so I haven´t had the chance to really talk about his diet.

He eats cooked chicken and beef (usually boiled, sometimes raw) or boiled chicken with salmon soup mass run through a grinder. This sounds very limited to me. He had allergy tests done as a puppy that showed allergy to chicken and the owner told me he is not supposed to eat pork at all. The unfortunate thing is that this is pretty much all we have around- even beef is rather expensive and other kinds of meats are just wildly expensive. I wouldn´t be worried so much but his feces are heavily covered in mucus and not really firm like I have been used to with my dogs and when I start to think of it, it has been like this every time I have seen him.

And he has very little teeth. He has his molars (at least most of them) and incisors but no canines and I think only one (or two?) premolar. Adding this info to the fact that I don´t have a grinder and the kind that can handle bones other than chicken (that he is not supposed to eat) is waaaay out of my league right now.

I have looked into a few chicken free kibbles but they seem to contain chicken fat. They told me that when a dog is sensitive to chicken he can still have chicken fat but I don´t even know if that makes sense...

And the really nice thing is that we are taking him with us when we go on a two week trip to Germany to shows. But at the moment I just can´t figure out where to even start. Help!

He is eating a boneless-meat diet (the gigantic red flag here)? Can you post back about this? Is he getting calcium in another form?

Also,: He eats cooked chicken and beef (usually boiled, sometimes raw) or boiled chicken with salmon soup mass run through a grinder. This sounds very limited to me. He had allergy tests done as a puppy that showed allergy to chicken

I don't understand the whole allergic to chicken thing .... he is fed chicken or is allergic to chicken?

This opens up a whole other thing: How was this allergy diagnosed? If you don't know, is there a way to find out? I have a gut feeling that this might have been via blood (RAST or ELISA) tests, completely useless as food-allergy tests for dogs but frequently used by some GP vets anyway.

If you can find out (a) what the symptoms were (itch or GI) and (b) what the diagnostic test was (food trial, AKA elimination diet, blood tests, or what), the you/we can assess much better what the problem was and whether the appropriate diagnostic tests were actually done.

If you can't find out any of that, then at least un-confuse me about whether he is fed chicken or is assumed allergic to chicken. Also, how does he get calcium.

I know something can be worked out.

"He eats cooked chicken and beef"

"showed allergy to chicken"

"sensitive to chicken "


??

"I have looked into a few chicken free kibbles but they seem to contain chicken fat. "

There are plenty of chicken-free kibbles. Again, though, see above. And is kibble the goal, or is fresh food?

The part about chicken fat: eh -- kinda. True food allergies are virtually always to a protein in the food. Fat isn't protein. But are we talking allergy or sensitivity?

That goes back to what were the symptoms back when he was a puppy and suspected of having a food allergy? More itch or more GI?

Sorry for the confusing post.

He had bloodtests done as a puppy before he left Russia and it showed allergy to chicken. I don´t know if he has ever really gotten chicken but every time I mention chicken (like "my dogs eat mostly chicken") the owner always tells me that his dog is never supposed to have chicken and is pretty particular about it.

He eats rice and beef. I was told to give him rice boiled with beef heart. That IS a red flag and this is why I am here and worried about this dog. The goal is to just give him something nutritionally more balanced than rice and beef heart.

I don´t know what his symptoms might be. I gave him some home made treats on the show this weekend (made of pork meat and liver, oil and eggs). I have noticed that he licks his paws a bit more than I am used to with my dogs and one hind leg had a little bloody spot but I can´t make out is it a licking thing or did he get it in some other way. He also tries to scrach his neck/ears but this might be because he is used to being without a collar and I have him tethered to me all the time he is not in the crate. I am again not sure if it is normal for him or not. The paws are not red or anything.

He is a pampered pooch and his owner is not very well informed. I guess I have to be more straight forward with him as I have tried to be very suddle with my advice. I am a bit overwhelmed about him right now as I was supposed to take him to a show for this weekend and now here I am, without really knowing what to feed or any proper clothes for him and it is pouring rain and cold outside so I am sorry for rambling a bit...

 Quote: Jaana Aadamsoo

He also tries to scrach his neck/ears but this might be because he is used to being without a collar and I have him tethered to me all the time he is not in the crate.

Try putting a harness on him without a collar. If this is irritation from the collar, he'll be scratching around the harness and not neck/ears. Haydn does this a lot and by switching from collar to harness and back I made sure that's the reason.

 Quote: jaana aadamsoo

Sorry for the confusing post.

He had bloodtests done as a puppy before he left Russia and it showed allergy to chicken. I don´t know if he has ever really gotten chicken but every time I mention chicken (like "my dogs eat mostly chicken") the owner always tells me that his dog is never supposed to have chicken and is pretty particular about it.

He eats rice and beef. I was told to give him rice boiled with beef heart. That IS a red flag and this is why I am here and worried about this dog. The goal is to just give him something nutritionally more balanced than rice and beef heart.

I don´t know what his symptoms might be. I gave him some home made treats on the show this weekend (made of pork meat and liver, oil and eggs). I have noticed that he licks his paws a bit more than I am used to with my dogs and one hind leg had a little bloody spot but I can´t make out is it a licking thing or did he get it in some other way. He also tries to scrach his neck/ears but this might be because he is used to being without a collar and I have him tethered to me all the time he is not in the crate. I am again not sure if it is normal for him or not. The paws are not red or anything.

He is a pampered pooch and his owner is not very well informed. I guess I have to be more straight forward with him as I have tried to be very suddle with my advice. I am a bit overwhelmed about him right now as I was supposed to take him to a show for this weekend and now here I am, without really knowing what to feed or any proper clothes for him and it is pouring rain and cold outside so I am sorry for rambling a bit...

There is so much here. For one thing, a blood test cannot ID food allergens in dogs. More on that later, because there are more pressing concerns.

The dog is not eating the most critical balance for a canid, which is calcium:phosphorus. There is no calcium in that "diet." The dog cannot maintain teeth, skeleton, and organs properly with no calcium. (And there's more about no calcium, but this is the shorthand to get the owner awake. )

So number one, IMO, is to get the needed calcium into the dog (gradually, as the rice is reduced -- both are different kinds of poop firmers and the rice is disguising the pudding poop this poor dog would have on this boneless diet otherwise).

What does he weigh? How much food (by weight of each of the two components as-fed) is he getting a day? What can you do without approval from the owner as far as meat variety goes? Tell us these things and we can help improve the diet, even if poultry is omitted (which again, has not been proven as an allergen via a blood test but I don't know what your position is about having to just work with it).

(The non-addition of calcium is a deal-breaker, IMO, and brooks no argument, whether it's as bones or eggshells or purchased supplements. But we need these other answers first. Maybe you could start saving up eggshells today. )

" I have noticed that he licks his paws a bit more than I am used to with my dogs and one hind leg had a little bloody spot but I can´t make out is it a licking thing or did he get it in some other way."



I'd watch this (and look inside the ears regularly) because it's kind of classic allergy behavior.

Environmental/inhalant allergies are far more likely than food allergies (less than 10% of dog allergies are food allergies, and, again, they can't be identified with blood tests), and anyway, he's itchy while not getting chicken.

Any flea symptoms?

I keep forgetting to add that for a host of great reasons, the addition of fish oil (and Vitamin E) to this guy's extremely unbalanced daily diet will be hugely beneficial.

We need his weight.

I was supposed to meet the owner on Skype last night but he didn´t come and I had to go...

I don´t know how much exactly he weighs but I am guessing about 17 kg (that should be about 34 pounds). When I got him he had food for 1,5 days and that was about 300g of rice and about 500g of beef heart (I didn´t have a scale and have a bad eye for measuring but this is what I am guessing) so I think about 400g a day.

I did have the chance to talk to my mother about Berger (the dog) and she didn´t know what did he eat as a puppy but he got red ichy spots. They did the bloodtest that showed allergy to chicken and he was put on a diet of boiled rice and beef until a year old and the owner never changed it... How on earth did this dog grow up? I think this must be a really hardy breed as they say. Berger had some thyroid problems at some point. Could this have been from his diet?

About variety I think I might get some turkey parts (I haven´t been to the place that had those so I´m not sure they still have those). I can get beef (is the heart really pretty much the same as muscle meat?) and pork. I remember that the owner said that he is not supposed to eat pork but I can´t remember why.

And I added fish oil last night. He lived it!

I hope I can get the owner on Skype tonight... Berger is fired up with energy wanting to do something, jumping up and down and whining but I can´t really do anything with him- I can´t take him outside for longer than needed for relieving himself without clothes (that I don´t have) and even that makes him shiver, I try to teach him playing but he is very posessive (he even growled at me once) and I´m scared to give him the treats I have. I guess will have to pick some heart out of hs rice to train him to get him at least a little more calm... Thank you for putting up with my whine!

Edited by Jaana Aadamsoo (09/28/2010 06:27 AM)
Edit reason: Oil comrnent