I'm moving this post here, and also asking you, Melissa, if there's any way you can link the board to a video clip of the dog's gait ....

I don't know, myself, about what age bunny-hopping would be a serious sign of HD, but others here will.

 Quote: melissa leuzinger

... I wasn't sure where to post this question. Kaiser is now 20 weeks old and I have noticed on his retrieves that often he falls down on the 2nd or 3rd retrieve. Is this normal? Is he going through the "gangly stage" that puppies go through? Should I be concerned? He doesn't run very far, about 40-60 feet per throw. He also runs kinda like a rabbit. His hind legs stay together, but when he trots he trots like a GSD. Am I over analyzing this puppy stage?
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Melissa Leuzinger

bunny hopping is usually either bad patellas, hips or both. I would be concerned that he is falling. That's a pretty serious symptom imo in a 5 month old dog.

I suppose it also could be something not as serious like pano. Either way I'd go to the vet.

Edited by Melissa Thom (10/23/2010 03:43 PM)
Edit reason: maybe something else too?

As the owner of a 15 mos old living on Rimadyl ( spinal
malformation), I know your worry. "Bunny hopping" isn't a sign of orthopedic perfection. BUT:
At 4-6 mos in a big pup bones are heavy and muscles are weak. Proper gait is a few months away. Many pups bunny hop when pressed for speed, and he may flop down just because it's fun to flop down.
I don't think one can reliably diagnose pathology at this age-- my own dog had undergone a full battery of Xrays by 7 mos. I wanted an ANSWER. 6 vets looking at good films, 2 from the U, and we were all way off. Keep your money, give him time. With time, hopefully he will out grow all of this and be a sound adult and everything you had hoped for. If he comes from a good breeder, that should give you confidence too.
Folks here who raise big pups will I'm sure comment on how you can help him by what you feed and the way that you exercise him.

Having not seen the dog move I would throw out my single experience with that description of gait. I have a dog that boarded w me as a pup that moved "goofy", a boxer. The owners left him a couple weeks and when they got back accused me of injuring their dog. Couple phone calls assuring them I most certainly did not hurt him in any way and they vanished from my scope. Six months later they call to board again, same dog...with an explanation (though never an apology) . The dog has spina bifida. We carpet his run and do all sorts of "baby proofing " for this 80# beast that likes to chew on my feet still. He has had limited training since they didn't think he would live long enough to be a PITA. He 90% of the time hops and flops all over.
I am assuming they got a diagnosis at Cornell since that is the place locally for specialist diagnosis.

Betty-
Thanks for your reply. Kaiser is from a litter of 9 puppies and not from a "breeder". Two families who had registered GS dogs bred the male and female and here we have Kaiser. There were 6 females and 3 males and Kaiser is the only male left in my town so I cannot judge the other males gait or their running ability. Kaiser is on the raw diet and takes the supplements outlined on the Leerburg website that Ed feeds his puppies. I use it as a guidline, and also have read the Raw Diet books.
I will try to link a video clip, maybe on Facebook?
I also have noticed he "clicks" every so often when he squats to use the bathroom, or just getting up after laying down. I think it is in his knees. I was thinking that this is the fact he is in a growing phase. He weighs 58 lbs. at 5 months (on the 25th of October). The vet says he is in great health, aside from this.
We were walking about 1 1/2 miles at a slow gait every other day, but since he has been falling I have stopped our walks until I figure out if that might be adding to it. He comes home happy and tired, but not exhausted. He always looks forward to going with me, and walks very well on leash.
Thanks, Connie for re-posting this.
Thanks again, in advance, for any replies.
Melissa

 Quote: Melissa Leuzinger

... I will try to link a video clip, maybe on Facebook?

If you link to a video clip, I think that it should probably not be on Facebook. There are a few non-Facebook folks who are also folks whose opinions you will want to get.

Photobucket might be a good alternative (and it too is free).


eta
Is he slender? No matter what the issue is, you don't want any extra weight at all. JMO.







Edited by Connie Sutherland (10/23/2010 06:12 PM)
Edit reason: eta

 Quote: melissa leuzinger

I also have noticed he "clicks" every so often when he squats to use the bathroom, or just getting up after laying down. I think it is in his knees. I was thinking that this is the fact he is in a growing phase. He weighs 58 lbs. at 5 months (on the 25th of October). The vet says he is in great health, aside from this.

So, does the vet know about this clicking in the knees? Or do you just mean he was totally fine before the clicking started? When was he last checked out?

If you can afford it, you might want to go in just for an exam, with all the symptoms and if there is a clicking the vet is not aware of, to have him check for a drawer sign - at least just to rule it out. Also, if it is growing pains, to put your mind at ease and be aware that any future pain might just be pano, and deal accordingly.

That's just what I would do.

Connie- Thanks for the advice re: FB and Photobucket.
Phaedra- I read the article on Pano that Ed Frawley wrote and it sounds very similar. I will put into action the recommendations he made, and also Kaiser just got checked out on Monday the 18th. We just weighed him and clipped his nails, and I was with him the whole time. The "clicking" started that same week. He is still teething and just lost a molar today. He has been given 1/2 a baby aspirin every 12 hours when he was fevered from teething. He takes the Kelp and Alfalfa, Vit. C, Vit. E, Salmon Oil, and he is on the raw diet.
I will reduce the bone intake as mentioned in the article, and monitor his weight.
The mother weighs about 80-85 lbs. and the dad is well over 100 lbs. but he really needs to lose weight,as he is just sedentary.
I wanted to control rapid weight gain, that is why I chose the raw diet.
Thanks again to all...
Melissa

I've always diagnosed pano. by squeezing the 'middle' of the long bones on the limb that he limps on. Generally moderate pressure will produce a pain response.

I've met a few dogs lately with a 'luxuating paetella' - not sure that's the right term. but they have an unstable knee joint prone to stiffness or occasional dislocation (it pops back into place afterwards)

Some little checks of neurologic function of the back end might be-
-- is his anal tone good? His butt should be tight shut at all times unless he is actually pooping
--- and this is a little hard to write about, but if you are holding him up (which might be hard to do, he's so big!), all 4 feet off the ground, and his hind feet brush against a surface, does he flip his foot right away so the pad is on the surface? An easier check in a big guy could be to have him standing, and just turn a hind foot over, so that the hairy part, the top part, is on the ground. Does he sense it's upside down and
"right it" immediatly? If he can, that's a good check of "correct wiring" to the hind limb.