I wish I could take credit for finding this article... but I can't. Anna posted the link on another list (For the best breed of dog {VanCamp}).

Here is the link:

Just saying Hi

I love this article. If we could get most of the idiots in the world to read and LEARN what the article says my world would be much easier. Even among people that should know better, I see this type of "rude" behavior from both dogs and owners. So many people are just oblivious to what their dog is doing, and/or encourage their dog into doing behavior that creates problems. I drives me crazy with the people that won't control their own dogs and don't pay attention to what the dog is doing.

I think there also are applications in other areas of training. Learning how to interact with your dog and to provide support carries over to work in protection and other areas. By working with a dog using dog language you can control most situations and teach the dog what you want by communicating to the dog in language they understand. It also allows you to use non-verbal communication to tell the dog what you want the dog to do. This type of interaction also helps establish proper "rank" within the "pack".

Outstanding article.

Richard, glad you posted this link. I read the article a couple of weeks ago and thought it would be a good idea to post. Then I got busy and it slipped my mind.

Max and I use a lot of public walks especially during the summer when there are quite a few people and dogs. We've been going to some of the same ones since he was a pup. It's great socialization, great for distraction training, etc. But I too have had problems with what this article has described as "rude" dogs. He was socialized very well with other dogs of all ages and sizes from a young age. While I don't trust him off leash with small dogs because of his prey drive he's basically fine with most others. It's on leash where I've noticed that he has a "personal space" and will snap sometimes when a "rude" dog is too obnoxious. He sometimes does that with pups as well. He has NEVER inflicted harm on any dog though. It's all noise and flashing teeth. More than enough to say "HEY, MIND YOUR MANNERS".

But tell that to the owner of the "rude dog". They think your dog is a killer and that you don't know sh*t. This article at least somewhat reaffirms my belief that it's not all MY dog's fault. I just try and walk faster to pass those "rude" dogs (usually they're on a flexi).

Thanks again Richard. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Richard--

Two words. "Thanks" and "Wow."

Pete Felknor

It's understandable that this sometimes happens in the home when there is more than one dog present. But why, for the love of God, would someone just allow their dog to approach other dogs for no apparent reason? I might be out of line here, and you can all feel free to tell me how stupid I am <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> but unless you are socializing your puppy or you are around someone whose dog you are familiar with, why would you need to let your dog meet other dogs??

Melissa,

Socialization doesn't end because the dog is an adult. There are times that it is at least convient to be able to have your dog get along with other dogs off or on leash. This would be in training situations where there are several dogs in a small area, or in a camping or similar situation and there may be other people and dogs around. Many dogs enjoy "playing" with other dogs, even as adults. I don't have a problem with that in a controled situation with "safe" dogs.

Melissa, the dogs that frequently have the most problems are the ones that have never had any dog-on-dog interaction. They don't have dog manners, haven't learned to inhibit their bite, etc.
That was a major point in the article.
Dogs have to be dogs some of the time.

Excellent.

BTW, I e-mailed the link to this article to my previous obedience club with the suggestion that all their trainers read it and pass it along to new students when their classes resume in September.
I don't know if they'll appreciate it, but maybe someone else will find it as helpful as I did.

But why, for the love of God, would someone just allow their dog to approach other dogs for no apparent reason? Good question. The same reason there are dog parks. People who don't have a clue about dogs and there needs and drives thought hey this would be good for my little phopho to run and play with that great big zues. There won't be any problem.

Well meaning people have ruined other things why not this too?

OK, I give up. Yes, I did take my dog to a dog park for a while. Then I smartened up. I learned that most of the people who frequent dog parks are not "dog educated" and use it as an easy exercise tool. Some of the people (I later learned) who actually formed the dog park, had some of the least trained dogs. While I did meet some nice well-informed people there, it was not enough to keep me going back to that chaos.

The submissive dogs were always okay together, the terrier types did not share well, everyone was afraid of the unneutered ones, rotties and staffie crosses, the other owners did not like dominant dogs, the greyhounds were not welcome, etc. It became very "clicky". There were no limits on number or size of dogs, etc.

I still believe that dogs DO need to be social with other dogs, off leash if possible. Maybe not for a working dog. But I think most people are fooling themselves if they think dogs don't need that kind of interaction. I believe one on one is best now, and preferably start when the dog is young.

How is a dog to learn dog language and manners if it is removed from the litter at 7-8 weeks and never gets to play with another dog again. That to me was one of the primary messages of the article. Humans are a good substitute for the pack and social structure that a dog needs, but it doesn't teach him how to be a dog.