Hi everyone! I couldn't find a fitting place to put this in the Schutzhund section, so into general conversation is goes.

I'm new to SchH training... as is Koenig. We are interested in titling in the future, and our trainer thinks we'll be ready in early spring for our BH. I'm wondering what a 'normal' training time frame is. I know it is a huge variable, depending on the dog and handler.

How long do people generally take between the BH and SchH1?

What kind of progression do people usually see with an adult dog in bitework? Koenig had his first runaway yesterday. Hit hard, and fast. The trainer said he hasn't seen a new dog take to a runaway like that ever, and he's never tried it with a dog as green as Koenig before. (Dang, I really lucked out with this dog!)

I'll try to get some video next week.

Many people will put the BH & 1 on the dog at the same trial. Depends on the ability to train often, dog & availabilty of trail dates in your area or if you might have to travel to trial. Lots of variablres. Not set way to do it.

Also the dogs age is a factor. Has to be a certain age to put a BH on it & then a bit older for the 1. Been a while since I've done SchH, so I don't know if there have been any rule changes, so I don't know the exact age requirements now, it may have changed, as some rules have. Steve is still active in it...so he will know the ages requiremts that are in the rules now.

Thanks Anne!

I hadn't thought about a BH and SchH1 at one trial. Hummm..... Something to consider depending on how things go this winter!

I was kind of assuming there would be a huge variable involved.

I know it's 16 months of age for the BH, and 18 months for SchH1, and Koenig will be 18 months by the time we're ready, so that in the clear.

It almost seems like a lot of people do the bh when its convenient, but the 1 takes a lot of training time. Then the 2&3 come pretty soon after that. How's his retrieves and tracking?

We're only on our 2d week of tracking (I told ya, we're NEW to this!)
At this point (he learned quick) I am at a regular stride, baiting every 3d step, and letting it age 20-30 min depending on the weather. (Gotta love NW WA rain this time of year) We track about every other day. He keeps a nice deep nose, but will sometimes track sideways.... kicks his hips out, and kind of sidepasses along the track. He'll do this regardless of stride size, or amount of food on the track. I've tried to help guide him with a hand on his left him to keep him in line, but then he seems to worry, and lean into the pressure? Any ideas?

Retrieves: His send out to is fine, nice clean jump (actually over jumps- this kid is built with springs for legs), but I currently have him on a flexi leash to 'reel him in' on the way back, OVER then jump. He likes to dart around it. :P Brat. Any advice for that? I had though about making a chute for the jump, so he'd have more incentive to come back correctly- what do you think? Or just keep reeling him back for a bit since he's new to it, and still learning what I want?

We had 3 nice retrieves in a row on Sunday (With me helping him back over the jump on the return)- I called it good at that point, and put him up.

We've only been to 4 days of training (once weekly)- the rest of our work is done on our own at home, so I am a bit concerned about teaching something wrong and having to un-learn it. . .

On tracking, are you with other people? If not, make sure you do it. For turning sideways, have you ever tried two lines? like a plow horse. You can gently correct to the left or right to stop him from coming back like that. Sometimes its easy to rush tracking and create problems for yourself. The Gary Patterson book they sell here gives a nice step by step plan and covers how to use the track itself to teach the dog.

On retrieves, I taught hold first.Then take it, then lowered it,put it on the ground, etc..For the jump I spent a lot of time taking him back and forth over it at first. When I did start sending him over it he was on a long line. I approached the jump and clapped my hands right above it calling him back. Don't tap the top of the jump though, you don't want to give him a target and get him using his feet on it.
For proofing it I used the ecollar. A low level correction, then take him back and over the jump the right way.

I would order the new Michael Ellis Jumps DVD. Can't do better than that!

On reeling in - you might want to avoid reeling your dog in during early stages of your training. Dogs reflexively oppose pressure on the leash and you might get the opposite result to what you are trying to teach. Then again, it's all up to you

At weekly training, yes, we are tracking with other people. At home, it's just us in a large field, but I live in apartments, so there are other dogs/people around that show up and ask a million and two questions. The two lines are a GREAT idea- I don't know why I didn't think about that! I'm a horse person- long lining is not a new concept for me. Excellent! Thank you! I'm currently tracking in a choke chain, oversized, with the leash under his chest/front leg. If I use long lines, should I stick a harness on him, or just have each line come up under the R or L leg?

On retrieves- he's good on hold and retrieving any item I throw out for him. No big deal. Still proofing straight/tight fronts, but I'm not worried about that. He'll get it. He also has no issues with the jump by itself. We've done some basic agility work and he loves to jump. It's just bringing the object BACK over the jump that is currently the problem we're having. I'm using his orbee ball right now, so the incentive is high for him to return it to me. Maybe a less exciting toy, or a dowel would slow him down enough to think about jumping on the return trip?
I think I'm going to head to Home Depot to buy some PVC to build a jump.

I might have to think hard about that DVD Ana. I've looked at it before. Honestly, the only Leerburg DVD I currently own is Marker training. Thanks for the reminder on opposing leash pressure- that is a really good point, and if I'm going to continue using that method I'll have to be really careful.

Edited by Kelly Byrd (11/09/2010 03:38 PM)
Edit reason: more info

Not long lines. Your still close to him with the plow lines. Two collars, lines under his front legs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbkNTq2r8o4

Here's another one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqHNsXzw668