Hello All,

A bit of background first.. I just recently received a big box of goodies, including five DVDs from LB! Score! I got Ed/Cindy's Marker DVD along with the full Michael Ellis collection.

Anyways, I'm still working on charging the mark. I got some of the soft training treats from LB, and while my dog likes them I don't think they are high enough value. I'm gonna swing by the grocery store and pickup some hotdogs and some cheese, and see if I get better results with that.

Onto my question/problem/hurdle that I'm trying to overcome - regardless of the treats, I seem to be having a hard time sounding happy and maintaining the same tone with my dog when using the marker, or at least it appears that way. I just don't feel like I'm having a lightbulb moment when I'm trying to charge the mark. Any tips? So far I've been trying to use "Yes" as my marker as suggested from the DVD. I hope I'm not alone in this.

Thanks!

Jonathan, that sounds like a great little box of goodies!!

Do you mean by not having a light bulb moment that YOU don't feel like you're nailing it or you don't see your dog getting excited/involved? (whose lightbulb? :crazy

In regard to voice - I felt the same way initially - that I wasn't being as consistant as I should be and sometimes my "yes" sounded one way and then another. I tried going to the clicker but didn't like having to having something else in my hands or with me to train, so we went back to yes. Even though I was not 100% consistant - it didn't really seem to matter. Falcon caught on immediately. Sooo, perhaps, as you suspect - it is the treats which he just doesn't care for.

As you are planning, try a few other items and see which he likes better, and don't forget the real yummy things like beef, bacon or chicken (barely cooked so you can handle it). Also, try to train when he is hungry - even if that means skipping a meal or feeding a 1/2 meal to ensure his appetite is up.

You might also try moving your hand away from your dog when offering the treat so that he has to move toward you instead of just having it handed to him... Although I found this too took some practice, it can engage the dog a bit more.

I hope these help, and I know other folks will chime in. At least you have the comfort of knowing you aren't doing any HARM by not nailing it on the head - just one of the many joys of marker training!

Hi Jonathan! I'm envious of your box of goodies!

Here's what I did- dont know if it will help you.... When we worked on charging the mark (and sometimes work on strengthening it), I would just carry treats around the house with me as I went about my normal business and would randomly throw out a "YES!!" and hand him the food. He might be a little confused at first but once he gets it, he'll spring to attention when he hears that 'yes'. Makes it easier if he's tethered and not really far away. I like to work on this at random times- like right now sitting with the laptop would be a great time. That way he learns to watch what I'm doing always, not just when we are outside in a "formal" training scenerio. He will learn to always keep an eye on what you are doing and listen for that magic "yes" word. So when charging, do it all day long, randomly, and in different situations. You should sound happy and upbeat to grab his attention but I've found they'll learn that word anyways eventually so don't get too down on yourself if you can't make it sound the same every time. And then he'll suprise you when he'll bound up to you in the middle of a conversation with another person because he picked the word "yes" out of a sentence. Just keep on it, it'll click with time!

Barbara:

I feel like Blade, my dog isn't having a "lightbulb" moment, which makes me feel like I'm not having "lightbulb" moment. He just seems confused, but enjoys the treats.

I think that just means the treats are not high enough value. I should also note that I just switched over to a raw diet, so maybe that is having an effect? Probably not, I probably just need higher value treats...

Jessica:

Yeah the box of goodies is pretty fun, yet overwhelming due to all of the content of five DVDs! Six considering the tug DVD is two DVDs. I like your idea of not trying to make charging the mark such a formal training event - that is what I've been doing. I like the idea of just randomly doing it throughout the day to keep his attention on me, rather than checking out.

I'm also trying to utilize his crate more.. typically on my weekend, I let him stay out of the kennel unless I have errands to run.. which usually leads to him chilling out on a blanket. I think maybe if I were to crate him more, and then do some marker training after taking him out, let him be out for a short bit, and then back to the crate he might be more excited to be out.

Blade definitely does not lack drive.. however I think over the course of his life (he turns 5 on Janurary 1st - New Years Baby!) he hasn't always looked to me for play/fun. He has looked to other family members/etc, and I've been the one doing all the formal obedience training/etc - the "rule enforcer" probably. I guess the reason I feel this way is because he definitely minds me the best, and is quite good with Sit/Down/Relax (put his head between his two paws)/Come/Stay/Blankey (A place command to go lay down on his blanket)/Hurry Up (Go pee)/Poo Poo (go poop)/Kennel. However, I think my training has been more based on corrections and handler praise, and not very motivational in the sense of tug/food. Anyways, about his drive - He can run all day with my sister's dog and not stop - I just need to recapture him I think. Hoping the crate works.

I'm also working some tug play into our routine, also picked up the intermediate tug set from LB. I'm not planning on trying to incorporate that into any training yet, just trying to teach him the rules. He has much more energy, though still needs work, when playing tug than charging the mark. He is good with out, but still could use more energy when getting the tug. Honestly, that part I think is mostly where I need work - I'm sure if Michael Ellis were to play tug with him, with his expertise/experience Blade would be doing great. Anyways, working on that as well - and that is actually really fun. Just want to see him put more energy into it!

Whew! That was a lot - you can tell work is boring lol

Hey Jonathan, watch how they are feeding the treat. Not just the tone of voice. Are you standing still or moving with him? That attention, or engagement they get comes more from the delivery then the word if your dog isnt crazy for food.

Jonathan, the extra info you gave was very helpful in painting the full picture of what is going on with this dog. I think you should work on deepening your bond with him. You need to become the center of his world!

I have lots of questions for you now!

How many other people/family members is he exposed to? When you say you have him kenneled, does that mean in a crate in the house or outside in a run? Have you tried tethering him to you in the house?

I know you've got a lot of information all at once that you are processing from all of those DVDs. When I first joined a club, I overloaded my dog with too much information and we weren't making any progress. Finally, I realized I needed to back up and start at the very beginning. So I started tethering my dog to me again. I started marker training all over. And I went back to the very basics. And all of a sudden, we started making HUGE progress together! He learns faster now.

That's why I would recommend a fresh start with your dog. You need to get that bond back with him, and get on a fun, positive note. You will get so much more out of him! So back up to the beginning learning phase, leave out corrections, and treat him as would would a pup. You are BOTH learning right now, go easy on yourself!

How many other people/family members is he exposed to?

Just my wife and I - the only other time he is exposed to other people is on Tuesday nights, my wife have a church function we goto up near my parent's house, so he goes to the grandparents house and hangs with them for 2 hours or so.

When you say you have him kenneled, does that mean in a crate in the house or outside in a run?

Crate in the house - my wife and I live in an apartment.

Have you tried tethering him to you in the house?

Nope, I haven't. How long a leash? I have a 20ft cotton long-line though I can forsee damaged furniture with that lol

So is the concept that I sense you are trying to get across to me, is to minimize the downtime nap sessions he has outside his kennel, and re-focus his day around me, and all things that I do. What about when I'm working on something? Is that when he goes back in the crate? Or just have him lie next to me, and reward for being calm/relaxed?

Your questions are leading to more questions from me - that's good though! I agree with you that I need to start over, and view marker training as a great way to start over and retrain him from a more motivational method - one that is based around a very black & white communication style.

Just want to reiterate that my suggestions to you is what I would do personally, and there may be other folks that want to chime in with different suggestions too.

When he can't be tethered to you (short leash- 4 or 6 feet), he should be crated. When he's out of the crate on his leash, its a good time to work on your charging the mark. Once he is consistently spring to attention at the word yes, then you can move on to other behaviors like rewarding for eye contact (that one's a biggie for me right now).

The reason I started leashing my dog in the house again on and off is, once I started allowing him to his own devices I think he lost focus on me and that led to training problems down the road.

I think what you are trying to do with your dog and what needs to happen for your marker training to work is you need to regain his interest and become his focus.

Make sense?

Yeah totally - makes sense.

Looking forward to others to chime in

Jonathan,
have you had Blade since he was a puppy?

I also agree with the tethering to you. It's just such a great way to bond with your dog. Just shorten up the cotton line to an agreeable length.

Now, i got a sense that you were saying that you can't get your voice "high" enough to instill an excitement/happiness in your voice that your dog can read as a reason to get excited and interested, is that right?