I decided to start this new thread on my warring female situation, in case anyone wants to discuss it further.

One think I was thinking of doing (suggested to me by a fellow dog hander) is to get some soccer cones or some painter's tape and mark off the older dog's space- i.e. where she can go while on her tiedown. Then, I would have the younger dog leashed with a dragline or her 6 foot leash, but not on her tiedown, and teach her to stay away from the older dog by redirecting her every time she goes in that direction. The soccer cones or painter's tape would be so I know if the younger dog is getting close enough that the older one could reach her or not. Because one would be on a tiedown and one would be leashed, they would both be controllable if anything went wrong.

Hey, they don't call 'em bitches for nothing!
A couple of questions - are both females intact? and how bad is the war - as in occassional scraps, big pitched battles requiring stitches or a complete inability to even share the same airspace on any terms without resulting in really big vet bills? How are they with other dogs? What is the biggest trigger of the fights?
I had two old girls, one of whom has since passed on and I think it just burns the a** of the surviving dog that she wasn't the cause of the others demise. They had a wicked grudge until
the end and we were never able to run them on the same team - well you could but a tangle or a turn-around could be "interesting" and no amount of correction make them completely reliable around each other. Neither of them ever had a fight with another dog and were very good workers - just hated each other.

Sorry Lisa - I missed your posts on the other thread until after I had posted.

Lisa, I have two suggestions. If you are going to put them on tie downs while you watch TV, I would sugges you change their positions freiquently. That will (hopefully) keep them from getting possessive of their particular spot.
We acclimate our racing terriers to the muzzle by hand feeding the dogs with the food in the muzzle. If they can be fed small bits while the muzzle is on, that will also keep their minds off of it. Also, we just put the muzzle on and drop them in the starting box. The lure keeps their mind off the muzzle.

Lynn, they're both spayed, one is 7 and one is 1. The first fight, I believe the trigger was my coming home. The second one started too quickly for me to see, but it was in the same room as me. The third one started when the 7yo had the 1yo cornered, and I said the 7yo's name....she snapped like a tightly coiled spring and launched an attack. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Each fight had to be broken up by pulling them apart, and prying their jaws off one another. The worst injuries were punctures on the head and neck. They haven't fought since March, when I was out of town on a search, and one of my family members let the 1yo out of her crate without first checking to see where the 7yo was. That was their 4th and final fight, and my wonderful family learned their lesson (fortunately, I had instructed all of them on how to break up a dog fight without getting hurt prior to this).

Bob, I've tried the hand feeding with the muzzle on thing....maybe I just haven't given it enough time. And I have not been changing their positions.....that sounds like a good idea.

Believe it or not dogs get jealous to, and if it’s a she the hair fly’s, Dog on dog Aggression that ends up in serious injury in my opinion is not normal dog behaviour, it is human taught or evoked by some factors such as frustration. Dogs well socialised and not over controlled to the point where they have to behave like good little children, learned many years back that in order to survive as pack, they could not risk injury to one an other this would reduce there ability for the pack to hunt and survive.

So if this is not the case where, what or who is to blame?

1. Well lets see:
2. Has the dog been severely corrected in the presence of the other in their den – Home, yard etc? If yes then the dog sees the other as aggressor and competition.
3. Do you treat them as equal? If yes -Misguided pack status – the one dog is tops the one day the next day its not this confuses the dogs and brings about anxiety
4. Do they jump on you when you get home or do they chew up the yard while you are away? Signs of some Affection competition or separation anxiety
5. – Do you correct and interfere with all fights
The dog must behave the way I want – owners want dogs to behave like humans
6. Does the dogs get out much? No social interaction with other dogs breed more frustration
7. Feeding habits, do you feed and go? does the dogs have food at their disposal 24 –7?, not good

8. Or have you checked breed for -Genetic imprinted aggression, true to breed character

9. Have you shouted and screamed at the dogs when you caught them fighting? – Enforcement of negative behaviour with positive stimulus

This is not textbook animal behaviour quotes, but I am shooting from the hip here with some questions I toiled with whilst reading, so I am just asking.

Lisa I think that separation and control maybe the best way to handle this, inside the house.

I'd try to make them direct that competition and frustration in another direction. Once outside play fetch with them letting one go after it while you hold the other. Put them on opposite sides of the tug, let them go at it. But no body contact, I think they need a release for this frustration.

This bitch is getting some of my attention thang, You know like when the new 26 yrs old blonde is introduced in the office and starts getting all the cherry jobs. Vision of loose flying blonde hair floats through the mind of some office mates.

These are suggestion that can happen if they can tolorate each other in your presence, if they are so aggressive that they fight in your presence, none of the frustration release stuff will work while they are together. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Just my opinion I'm not a pro trainer.

Reiner Geel
Very conceptual, it what I've come to expect from you. I think you are hitting the nail on the head in theroy, of the probable cause for this reaction among dogs that competing for status.

Do anybody know of any bithces that get alone? I mean female dogs that live together, without much fighting. And if so, is it because one is recongnized Alpha?

I had a sch3 female that lived inside with a spayed female and male. Took 2 wks of a prong collar with corrections for growling, dominance, etc for her to learn to behave in the house. Never had any problems. My sch3 female since passed away due to health issues, but I have a sch2 female that will try to go after my other females. She tolerates males, but will not tolerate another female, spayed or not. So she just doesn't get to be around them. They stay separated no matter what. Makes life alot easier.

my two bitches get along, maybe i am lucky, i really don't know who is alfha between them either, but they both know that i am alfha bitch. but i also think it could be an age differance, 1 1/2 year old and an 8 1/2 year old. but also could be that the older one has hd and does not put up much of a fuss anyway.