Hi,

I have practised the position changes with Kaiser like in leerburg DVD. 1.Sit from a stand 2. Down from a stand 3. Stand from a down 4. Sit from a down 5. And finally down from a sit.

All with out moving front legs( or minimal movement As far as possible). I used to do it on a pedestal which forced him to not creep forward(because if he did he will fall off).

He does it well on the pedestal, and decent when I am a few feet away from him when off the pedestal (on gound). Once I am more than say 10' away from him, the chaos starts.

He is like one of those dressage horses. If I ask him to sit from a down, he will move sideways a bit, and his front feet will be doing a stomp on the spot. His butt will be out of line from his front feet. When I ask him to do a down from a sit, he will not kick his butt out all the way, rather be lazy and move it only a bit and then flop forward and in the process creep forward. He does the stand from the down decently and the best is stand from the sit.


How do I make him understand that in the position change game, his front feet are to be glued to the ground.

frequently when he does a down from a sit, I am always growling "Bad platz" while he does his half assed platz when he moves his butt only half way and plops his front end down. I again go near him and do the platz like in michael ellis video, by pushing the food down and into him to make him move back. He does it Ok then , but when I move back we regress.


Most importantly , during training, he seems to be looking through me. He has a lost look. I did a google search and there are people who talk about "Doberteens", when the dog is supposed to be disobedient etc. Not sure if it is true , but the term seems to be thrown around a lot. He is 8.5 m/o

PLEASE HELP.

Take a break and work on something else.
If the dog is getting antsy, bored and looking through you, you've done too much of this.

Come back to it later.

I don't really believe that dogs go through a "disobedient" stage as much as it is just confusing to them.
To often we try and progress to quickly before the dog is solid in the earlier stages.
Of course the dog will platz like the Ellis DVD if you standing in front and "pushing the food down and into him". He has no other choice because you are physically blocking any forward movement.
Stay in front and get that solid "without" physical cues from you ("pushing food down and into him".
Until that is accomplished you will never get control from a distance.
Slooooowly add distance as the dog understands without physical cues!

A good way to prevent the forward or sideways creeping is to teach your dog to put his front feet on a flat target, like a strip of carpet. Then you teach him to sit, down, and stand with his front feet staying motionless on that target.

I would teach this first with him next to you in a heel position, and then in front of you. Then you can slowly increase the distance.

This is going to take a lot of time, but perhaps teaching him the way you did on a pedestal will translate readily to the target/place training.

Is there really a stage where things start getting confusing for them. If so what is that age.

I will take all your advice.

Bob scott> The funny thing is he will do it well with out me pushing food into him if I am within 10' or so of him, once I move beyond that, he gets squirly.


I will teach the carpet thing and see if that helps. Then once I have it solid, I will move to the ground and add distance.

Not so much an age as your time spent in developing the basics of whatever behavior your working on.
If you advance to fast the dog then gets confused as to what you expect.
It's believed by some that a 7 week old puppy has the brain capacity of an adult dog. It just doesn't have the experience. That takes time!
Also vary your distance. 2feet, 5 feet, ten feet 3 feet. Add time and distance gradually AND randomly!

I've experienced "Doberteens" as more of a 'cheeky' stage, but haven't really seen obedience training suffer too much during this stage (for a month or three within about nine months to 2 years old). Im not sure it's Dober-specific, but I've seen them chew inappropriate things that you might think they are long done with chewing, suddenly forgetting that they have a recall, that sort of thing.

I have noticed that the attention span might not be as long during adolescence. I might consider burning off any excess energy prior to training, keeping the sessions on the shorter side, making sure the rewards are super-high value and otherwise following everyone else's great advice in terms of the training itself.

How far away were you doing the positions when he was still on the pedestal? Were you able to get 40, 50, etc feet away from him and still get solid positions? If not, I'd go back to having him on the pedestal. Get your distance down solid, then you can put him on the ground and work back up to the distance.

I've also used a variety of barriers when the dog is on the ground to keep their body straight and prevent creeping. A U shaped PVC frame with legs on it so it's a couple inches off the ground. A similar frame made out of 2x4s set on their side. Stakes in the ground with wire, string, etc run between them. Pool noodles. Strips of chicken wire folded into a V then set on the ground like an A. Or as someone else suggested teaching them to do the positions with their front feet on a place.

Any of these will help teach a consistent muscle memory to the dog, so they perform the changes the same way every time. With Kita I just taught her the positions on the top half of a crate, and only did them on the ground once or twice before trial. She had perfect positions, no creeping, until the crate broke (to many people sat on it LOL) and I started working her on the ground consistently. Now she tends to creep forward or sideways, so I'll probably take another crate half out to the field. Or use the PVC frame, we have a couple of them at the club.

You know what, I have never trained the position changes on a pedestal from any distance, may be just a few feet away. Did not even occur to me that I had to do it at a distance. I will also try the PVC thing

I am glad you asked this question. I am going to train my guy on a bale of hay.
That might work, I never thought of it before.

Merry Christmas Ram.
Do you celebrate Christmas at your home, or do you have another tradition?