Joe Waddington wrote 12/26/2010 11:39 AM Saint Bernard has epileptic seizures #308801 - 12/26/2010 11:39 AM
Joe Waddington Webboard User Reg: 09-02-2009 Posts: 581 Loc: Ca Offline	Has anyone had experience with a dog that suffers from epileptic seizures? A friends Saint Bernard does get them. I have read about grains being a possible trigger and some success stories of switching to a raw diet. I mentioned switching to a grain free and better yet raw diet and she is feeding a grain free. Her vet has said not to believe everything you read on line about grains and seizures, I think he wants her to continue buying the diet he recommends and sells her at $95 a bag? Any info about raw diets helping a epileptic dog would be appreciated as any info that can help.
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Kelly Byrd wrote 12/26/2010 12:31 PM Re: Saint Bernard has epileptic seizures [Re: Joe Waddington ] #308805 - 12/26/2010 12:31 PM
Kelly Byrd Webboard User Reg: 07-28-2010 Posts: 2249 Loc: Tacoma, WA Offline	I haven't done any research, but I've only personally known 3 large breed dogs that have had seizures, 3 were Saints, and the 3d was my GSD/Rotti mix. I wonder if Saint's are prone to them?... interesting. I don't have a heck of a lot of help to offer, besides giving phenobarbital, and fine tuning the dose until the seizures are few and far between. Most dogs can be maintained on Pheno, and once that dose is right, won't have seizures, but it requires constant blood work to check the pheno levels, and liver values. Is this dog on ANY medication? A switch to a premium kibble (not one a vet prescribes, most of the time) would be 2d on my list, after getting Phenobarbital on board. Check blood at 14, 45, 90, and 145 days after starting medication at minimum (called trough levels) and then eery 6 months unless there is a problem, or lots of seizure activity.
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Connie Sutherland wrote 12/26/2010 12:37 PM Re: Saint Bernard has epileptic seizures [Re: Kelly Byrd ] #308806 - 12/26/2010 12:37 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Quote: Kelly Byrd I wonder if Saint's are prone to them?... Yes, unfortunately.
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Betty Landercasp wrote 12/26/2010 12:56 PM Re: Saint Bernard has epileptic seizures [Re: Connie Sutherland ] #308808 - 12/26/2010 12:56 PM
Betty Landercasp Webboard User Reg: 11-30-2009 Posts: 3724 Loc: minnesota Offline	Back in the day, I was taught that seizures are not to be medicated until they occur > once a month. They are a learned behavior somehow in the brain, so if it's more than that you want the phenobarbital, just as Kelly said. The owner needs to be told that once the pheno starts, taking it away is likely to trigger seizures. That medication is cheap and relatively non-toxic. Other things will lower the seizure threshold in dogs that are prone. The tranquilizer Ace Promazine, for example. Check that the dog isn't being fed or watered in something that is oozing lead, I made that mistake once. Intact females with seizure disorder have more trouble around heat cycles. Since the disorder is heritable, people recommend spaying the dog. http://s922.photobucket.com/albums/ad67/Grasvaly/
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Connie Sutherland wrote 12/26/2010 01:11 PM Re: Saint Bernard has epileptic seizures [Re: Joe Waddington ] #308810 - 12/26/2010 01:11 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Quote: Joe Waddington Has anyone had experience with a dog that suffers from epileptic seizures? A friends Saint Bernard does get them. I have read about grains being a possible trigger and some success stories of switching to a raw diet. I mentioned switching to a grain free and better yet raw diet and she is feeding a grain free. Her vet has said not to believe everything you read on line about grains and seizures, I think he wants her to continue buying the diet he recommends and sells her at $95 a bag? Any info about raw diets helping a epileptic dog would be appreciated as any info that can help. Carbs and seizures are still being researched, but all the evidence to date (that I have seen) points to a conclusion of a strong connection. That vet might want to read up. I recommend Lew Olson's new book for your friend. http://leerburg.com/9000.htm Here's an interesting page: http://books.google.com/books?id=-qxgF7NlR2gC&pg=PA166&lpg=PA166&dq=diet+for+dogs+with+seizures,+lew+olson&source=bl&ots=iXMObkXcJJ&sig=NSnq4_wVJGxvDYrR4WSxzQc3Bso&hl=en&ei=LYwXTamIDY_msQPG1_SSCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CDUQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q&f=false I would probably turn to Mary Strauss (DogAware) and Lew Olson for diet information when feeding a dog with a chronic disorder. http://www.dogaware.com/articles/wdjhomemade1.html But also see: http://www.canine-epilepsy.com/healthydiet.html and http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/healthy_diet.htm I personally think the kibble process, period, requires more starch than I want to feed a dog with a seizure disorder, and that the whole kibble category is therefore wiped out (for me). This is not to say that other forms of commercial foods are necessarily equally unacceptable. All JMO. I'm sorry the vet is (apparently) so concerned with selling something.
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Mara Jessup wrote 12/26/2010 06:41 PM Re: Saint Bernard has epileptic seizures [Re: Kelly Byrd ] #308837 - 12/26/2010 06:41 PM
Mara Jessup Webboard User Reg: 12-28-2005 Posts: 2316 Loc: Offline	Quote: Is this dog on ANY medication? A switch to a premium kibble (not one a vet prescribes, most of the time) would be 2d on my list, after getting Phenobarbital on board. My brother has a dog who has seizures. This dog averages probably two a month and they don't medicate him. The vet said that there is no real reason too as the seizures are not very frequent - sometimes he'll go several weeks between seizures then he'll have 2 in one week followed by a few more weeks without. K-9 Knitter
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Joe Waddington wrote 12/26/2010 07:00 PM Re: Saint Bernard has epileptic seizures [Re: Mara Jessup ] #308838 - 12/26/2010 07:00 PM
Joe Waddington Webboard User Reg: 09-02-2009 Posts: 581 Loc: Ca Offline	They are giving the Phenobarbital and having blood work every 6 months there vet seems to think it's enough? I can't thank you all enough for your replies, the info I'm sure will be a great help so I am passing it on thanks. It does sound like the vet wants to make the profit on the food?
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Betty Landercasp wrote 12/26/2010 07:48 PM Re: Saint Bernard has epileptic seizures [Re: Joe Waddington ] #308840 - 12/26/2010 07:48 PM
Betty Landercasp Webboard User Reg: 11-30-2009 Posts: 3724 Loc: minnesota Offline	There never used to be a big markup on dog food, and you had to buy a 1/4 semi load at a time. Vaccines were a money maker, no argument there, but dog food never used to even be profitable. We quit carrying anything but the bladder stone diets. Feeding a Saint is expensive. http://s922.photobucket.com/albums/ad67/Grasvaly/
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Kelly Byrd wrote 12/27/2010 12:42 AM Re: Saint Bernard has epileptic seizures [Re: Mara Jessup ] #308850 - 12/27/2010 12:42 AM
Kelly Byrd Webboard User Reg: 07-28-2010 Posts: 2249 Loc: Tacoma, WA Offline	Quote: Mara Jessup My brother has a dog who has seizures. This dog averages probably two a month and they don't medicate him. The vet said that there is no real reason too as the seizures are not very frequent - sometimes he'll go several weeks between seizures then he'll have 2 in one week followed by a few more weeks without. It all depends on the severity of the seizure. It can range from just a twitch in the face, to a glazed over eye and stiff stance for 30 seconds, with a couple minutes of recovery time, to a grand mal seizure, with complete loss of body control, convulsions, bladder and bowel emptying, and vocalizations. The post-ictal phase (recovery phase) from these larger seizures can last all day. It's terrible to see, and any dog that is having large seizures like that deserves medication. We have some clients at the vet clinic that opt not to medicate, because the dogs seizure is very very mild, and they recover quickly. Personally, with my old epileptic dog he took a full day to recover. He was disoriented, stiff and sore, and had trouble with his eyesight. Horrible to watch.
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Kelly Byrd wrote 12/27/2010 12:44 AM Re: Saint Bernard has epileptic seizures [Re: Betty Landercasp ] #308851 - 12/27/2010 12:44 AM
Kelly Byrd Webboard User Reg: 07-28-2010 Posts: 2249 Loc: Tacoma, WA Offline	Quote: Betty Landercasp Feeding a Saint is expensive. You think? The Newfies I had growing up ate less then Koenig, and weighed 50lbs more then he does! I just assumed a Saint would have a similar body chemistry/metabolism as a Newf. Regardless, $90/bag is outrageous, unless that is a 90lb + bag of dog food!!!
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