 food or toy for reward
#309034 - 12/28/2010 10:54 PM |
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I did not intensionaly wean off of food rewards but Zuki seems to now prefer toys. She still is crazy about food but I like using toys too because she gets some exercise in the prosess. So my question is: is there a good reason why in some training that food should be used instead of a toy besides the dog not training as long because it gets tired faster? I also like using toys because I don't have to worry about her choking on treats. She also does not spend all of her time cheeking the ground for a treat I might have dropped.
If the dog is still interested in a toy that you leave with him/her should it be a problem to use it also for a training toy?I bought a pup tire and she will play with it on her own some but loves it so much better when when I play with the toy with her.
thanks in advance...
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Re: food or toy for reward
[Re: Elizabeth Anderson ]
#309036 - 12/28/2010 11:15 PM |
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Save the pup tire for your training sessions. It's perfectly ok to use a toy as a training reward but then it should be used as a reward and not left with the pup all the time.
"A dog wags his tail with his heart." Max Buxbaum
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Re: food or toy for reward
[Re: Elaine Haynes ]
#309039 - 12/29/2010 12:00 AM |
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What to use depends on the dog. Some are over the top when it comes to toys/tugs. They just can't control their drive and stop thinking.
Teaching this type of dog with food is "usually" easier. Once the dog really understands the exercise then the toy/tug used for reward will bring up the intensity of the behavior for a flashier performance.
Ditto on the tire being used as a play toy. It's YOUR training tool! Kind of like a kid having a free ride to the cookie jar. Why do anything for it if it can have it for nothing.
old dogs LOVE to learn new tricks |
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Re: food or toy for reward
[Re: Bob Scott ]
#309065 - 12/29/2010 07:46 AM |
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We use a tennis ball for Vader's reward now. He's very food driven too, but we are building his drive and he LOVES his balls 
"Vader" my 8 month mal
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Re: food or toy for reward
[Re: Olivia Brown ]
#309073 - 12/29/2010 08:16 AM |
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You use what works for the dog.
My own experience has been that the two different rewards work best in different situations. Food is often more useful when you want the dog to work in a lower state of drive. It also works when you're doing some form of training that you do not want broken up by frequent tug or fetch sessions. It can be good for helping a dog maintain focus during duration exercises.
For example, when I put Danke in a long down, I will often walk away from her, return, put a small tidbit of food between her legs, and walk away again. In this scenario, I cannot reward for duration with a toy, without also ending the down/stay.
In heeling, I find that a toy works better, as it keeps the dog in drive, and thus creates a very nice looking posture.
Heel 50 paces, break for tug, heel 50 more paces, etc.
I also like to use a toy at the END of a duration exercise, as part of the release.
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Re: food or toy for reward
[Re: Olivia Brown ]
#309080 - 12/29/2010 08:57 AM |
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We use a tennis ball for Vader's reward now. He's very food driven too, but we are building his drive and he LOVES his balls
This is a bit off-topic, but I feel compelled to mention the general consensus on tennis balls, which is that they are harmful to the dog's teeth and should probably be replaced by a different kind of ball/toy.
Some say it's the grit, some say it's the glue, but pretty much everyone has told me that tennis balls are bad news.
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Re: food or toy for reward
[Re: Ross Rapoport ]
#309094 - 12/29/2010 09:54 AM |
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My understanding is that the tennis balls are fine for fetch and retrieval stuff just not a chew toy...according to My Leerburg OB DVD anyway.
And like others said the anticipation of the tug reward builds drive so if your doing calm work, a perfect example is leash pressure work like in the M.E. Heeling DVD you dont want to use a toy reward cause it will pump the dog up. Comes down to the dog and the exercise really.
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Re: food or toy for reward
[Re: Kyle DeSerio ]
#309111 - 12/29/2010 11:50 AM |
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I'll second what Aaron said, it depends on the exercise and drive I'm looking for. When teaching a behavior I use a lot of food, because I'm usually doing a lot of rewarding for little steps. Once the behavior is understood and we are ready to go more towards 1 big reward at the end, vs little rewards throughout, I'll switch to the toy. Assuming it's higher value to the dog then food is.
With food you can reward, and keep one working. With a toy, once you reward you are done for 5-60 seconds, so it's effectively ended the exercise. So change of positions with a puppy is food, a piece for every change. Change of positions with an adult is the toy thrown after they have completed 5-10 changes.
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Re: food or toy for reward
[Re: Kadi_Thingvall ]
#309183 - 12/29/2010 05:57 PM |
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Like everyone else said, it depends! On the dog, the exercise, the surroundings, etc.
One of my dogs is very toy driven. He will work for high value food rewards too. When I need him to be a little calmer to think through something I will start off with food rewards. If I want to ramp him up a bit or when he starts to get a new exercise, then I pull out the tug - I have both accessible. This way, I can moderate the value of the reward based on his effort etc. BTW this was later in his training - not at the beginning.
Good luck!
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Re: food or toy for reward
[Re: Melissa Snider ]
#309236 - 12/29/2010 09:54 PM |
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He doesn't ever chew the tennis balls...just brings them back so we can throw them again. I've tried other kinds but the tennis balls are his favorite. I'll check with the vet next time we go in but I don't really worry about his teeth as long as he's not gnawing on them.
"Vader" my 8 month mal
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