any advice on how to stop this?
#26619 - 05/29/2004 11:43 AM |
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i have a 2-3 year old dominant female beagle named polly. i also have a 2 year old male beagle named moby.
moby rarely ever barks or howls but polly on the other hand, she does the barking for the both of them. it's not anything that happens all day long but situational.
the problem isn't the barking - dogs bark. the problem i have is how she does it. allow me to explain. she does seem to have some animal aggression and is very leash agressive. we take to off-leash dog parks and she is fine w/ other dogs for the most part.
so we just moved to a new apartment and it is fairly large w/ huge windows in the livingroom and bedroom. there is this huge courtyard right outside where everyone walks there dogs, etc. even at our old place polly enjoyed looking out the window and would bark whenever she saw something. now when she looks out and sees another dog, she goes crazy. not only does she bark, she scrathes at the window in a digging motion trying to get out. of course it's not much of a problem when the window is closed but when it was open, she managed to put a hole in the livingroom screen as well as the bedroom screen. the complex replaced one for free but said if it happened again, we would have to pay to get it fixed which is understandable.
so now if we have the livingroom window open, we put a gate in front of it so that she can't destroy the screen. as for the bedroom window, she doesn't do it when the horizontal blinds are down -- we have vertical blinds on the livingroom windows.
of course people walking their dogs think she's insane and she looks this way. i don't know how i can get her to stop doing this. i don't care if she looks out the window but this is just nuts. any tips?
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Re: any advice on how to stop this?
[Re: Melissa Dragovan ]
#26620 - 05/29/2004 01:44 PM |
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I have to chuckle because Polly sounds like a few of the dogs on our walking route. Fortunately, with the exception of my dog aggressive bitch, my dogs ignore them. With my dog aggressive bitch, I use these dogs as a training setup, working her past the house with the crazy dogs, keeping her attending to me and performing obedience commands.
The simplest way to prevent this is to eliminate her access to the windows, particularly when you are not home.
When you are home, you have several options, but what has worked well with my dog (who barks but does not scratch at the window; I would put a stop to that immediately, as I find it incredibly annoying in other people's dogs, and would consider it unacceptable in my own) is to call her to me and put her in a sit until the other dog has passed. This serves a dual purpose; one, it gets her to shut up, and two, we get to practice the recall off of distractions.
On a side note, dogs are often dog aggressive not because they are "dominant", but out of fear. When they are afraid that another dog is going to harm them, they put on an offensive display in order to drive the threat away. It seems as if you have labeled Polly "dominant", but I'd encourage you to rethink that assumption.
Lisa & Lucy, CGC, Wilderness Airscent
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Re: any advice on how to stop this?
[Re: Melissa Dragovan ]
#26621 - 05/30/2004 01:08 AM |
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I was watching one of the Leerburg videos and Ed said if a puppy is attacked even once by a big dog he'll be dog aggressive his whole life. I guess it has a psychological effect that remains with them always. It would have to be out of defensive fear and not just dominance.
I have a dominate dog and he don't want to fight every strange dog he sees like a dog aggressive dog. Instead he uses body language to a strange dog to show he's the boss. And as a 110 lb well built German Shepherd, not many dogs will argue. But when they have, a short harmless squabble will break out. For that reason alone I avoid letting him have much contact with strange dogs. Dog fights with big working dogs are a horrible thing.
My point is, I believe dominance is different than dog aggression. Dog aggression is where the dog will attack every strange dog he sees with an all out fight.
I was walking my big GSD down the street when a tiny little insane dog aggressive "wiener" dog came running out behind a car an attacked my 110 lb GSD. He must have weighed only 20 lbs but he just assaulted him with an all out attack for no reason. In just an instant my dog picked it up in his mouth and flung it over his head and broke the new big choke chain I just bought for him and trotted down the street.
That little guy went running and limping and screaming back too his yard.
But his attack was insane. A 20 lb wiener dog vs a 110 lb GSD? That's dog aggression for ya.
They need very strict obedience in distracting situations to work them out of it. The problem is they lose all sense of obedience when they see a strange dog and the insane idea they have to attack that dog takes preeminence over everything. So, he has to learn that I am in control and not him.
Besides the strict OB try an electronic remote shock collar on a dog aggressive guy. Every time he looks at another dog in a threatening way he should get a good zap. And then praised real good when he turns away from the strange dog.
Praise for correct behavior after a correction for a bad one programs the good behavior deep in their mind.
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Re: any advice on how to stop this?
[Re: Melissa Dragovan ]
#26622 - 05/30/2004 09:19 PM |
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Alan wrote: try an electronic remote shock collar on a dog aggressive guy. Every time he looks at another dog in a threatening way he should get a good zap. And then praised real good when he turns away from the strange dog.
LC: I'd advise STRONGLY against using an Ecollar like this. More than likely it will increase your dog's aggression rather than decrease it. It may stop the aggressive display because the dog will learn to stop it: but you may get a dog that goes from calm to murder, without the display because you've trained him to shut it off.
The OB is a good idea though. If the aggression continues and you have an Ecollar take a look at the article on my website entitled "Crittering and Dog to Dog Aggression."
Lou Castle has been kicked off this board. He is an OLD SCHOOL DOG TRAINER with little to offer. |
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Re: any advice on how to stop this?
[Re: Melissa Dragovan ]
#26623 - 05/30/2004 11:09 PM |
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i have to agree with lou. e-collars have their place, but this is not one of them.
if there are no dogs in heaven, then when i die i want to go where they went. ---will rogers |
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Re: any advice on how to stop this?
[Re: Melissa Dragovan ]
#26624 - 05/31/2004 03:11 AM |
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Yes, if the dog is in a fight it will make it worse but I was talking about before the fight and if he ignores his basic obediance.
He's a couple of answers from the Leerburg Q & A section regarding this topic:
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If this dog is attacking other dogs - then it needs more than a fly swatter or a verbal correction. It needs a shock collar or a damn big stick. I mean a stick! He needs to develop some respect for the fact that THIS IS NOT ALLOWED. That DOES NOT happen with a verbal scolding, it does not happen with a fly swatter.
It happens when this dog gets corrected so severely that it remembers the correction for the rest of it’s life. That happens when you whale on him. Read the Q&As I have posted on this. I will not retype this stuff.
My feeling is that you and your husband are in over your head. Most people cannot correct this
problem. They simply do not have the temperament to be able to administer hard enough corrections to change the dog’s behavior. Most behaviorists do not have enough experience to be able to offer sound advice on problems like this.
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So keep your dog in the pen, get your collar for the fence fixed, he should wear a wire muzzle when out, obedience train this dog, and if he does go after another dog – teach him what it feels like to be attacked! I will guarantee this will work.
If you can't do these things – then find the dog a new home in the country.
Dogs like this must mind ALL THE TIME, not just when they feel like it. The unfortunate thing is that to change this behavior you will have to apply a great deal of force in training. The final “mind set” of the dog must be - “I must mind because I do not want to bear the crap that is going to come down on my head for not minding.” Once a dog understands this concept the problems are finished.To accomplish this the dog needs to get a prong collar or an electric collar (I prefer the prong) and a long line. When it does not mind it needs a correction that will flip it over backward. If the dog even looks at the other dog it needs additional severe corrections for even looking at the strange dog. When the dog comes to you it needs a lot of praise. It needs to understand that it is only one way - your way - and when it does mind it gets a lot of praise.
The praise is important even if the dog is corrected. This tells the dog that you still love it and that you have forgiven its stupidity.
The dog should not go off leash for a long time. Let it drag a 30-foot line. If it gets away and does get into a fight, the level of corrections must be so severe that the dog needs to think its life is threatened - by you. You need to be screaming NO NO NO!!! Giving multiple corrections like a crazy person.
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Re: any advice on how to stop this?
[Re: Melissa Dragovan ]
#26625 - 05/31/2004 09:01 AM |
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There's absolutly no need for such violence towards your dog. While this may stop him from attacking other dogs, if he's of the right (wrong) temperament it might get his aggression focused someplace else, alright, on YOU.
Using an Ecollar for aggression is best done with the protocol that is on my website or here on this forum.
http://www.leerburg.com/ubb//ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=23;t=000028#000001
It's fast, it's easy and there's no chance that your dog will turn and bite you.
Such rough handling is "old school" and isn't necessary for anything. It's better to work with your dog than against him.
Lou Castle has been kicked off this board. He is an OLD SCHOOL DOG TRAINER with little to offer. |
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Re: any advice on how to stop this?
[Re: Melissa Dragovan ]
#26626 - 05/31/2004 09:43 AM |
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Alan, your "method" sounds like it will just make the dog run away, THEN attack. How do I know? I had some neighbors that tried something similar on their Chihuahua and it would just run out of reach first and attack with all of its might (ended up making the situation MUCH worse).
"Dog breeding must always be done by a dog lover, it can not be a profession." -Max v Stephanitz |
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Re: any advice on how to stop this?
[Re: Melissa Dragovan ]
#26627 - 06/01/2004 03:17 AM |
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I'm not pretending to be an expert and you could be right. Of course this method is last resort. What do you do when all else fails? Will your method work 100% of the time? Of course it should be tried first.
I guess I am getting off topic a little. They asked about a beagle not a crazy dog aggressive GSD.
As you said, good sound basic obedience is the first and best course of action. OB with distractions and OB with strange dogs far away at first then gradually working your way in closer day after day or week after week.
A patrol trained GSD that is extremely dog aggressive is very dangerous and costly, having to pay the vet bills for the dogs he attacks and bloodies.
They have the crazy idea the strange dog is a mortal enemy and will attack to kill.
I haven't had one turn on me when he gets zapped yet, most of the time it throws "cold water" on his aggression if he hasn't already started the fight because I use a serious "NO" command before the zapping and he associates the zapping with my seriousness for him to obey and not with the strange dog.
Of course if he has already entered into a fight he associates the shock with the enemy dog and fights that much harder.
I read your article and that's good advise to start with. Thanks.
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Re: any advice on how to stop this?
[Re: Melissa Dragovan ]
#26628 - 06/01/2004 07:13 AM |
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I've used Lou's method many times for dog aggression and other similar behaviours (cats, people on bikes, etc...) It's never failed me yet, if done correctly.
Happy and SAFE Training,
Scott |
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