any advice, as one of my girls left unatended for a few moments got in the others box and killed /mauled one of her pack mates pups then took it to her box ???? am i right to think that she will always be a problom now i am afried to even let her near my child, last time they had a litter together they where all to happy to have any one of the other gilrs around and even allowed the best mom to help with the cleaning ,she is the only one of my girls that was a rescue at 2 years old and i wonder if this playes a part in it all my other girls clean nest whelp feed toghther with out any bother in fact contrayer to advice if i isolate one of them the others get agitated and thoughts from anyone will be most gratfull singed devestated in england

This bitch will be ok with your child (with the supervision I am sure that you normally provide) - aggression to people is an entirely seperate issue.

You should NEVER - absolutely never leave any bitch with access to another bitches puppies!!! That is a golden rule. Bitches will sometimes kill the offspring of other dogs, it can be triggered by a season / pregnancy or anything. If this hasn't happened before in the situation you have described you have been lucky.

"last time they had a litter together?"
Did that mean that you had multiple litters on the ground? That could change the dynamic.

In order to help you we need more details? What kinds of dogs? How many bitches / how many males / what kind of welping area / what are you breeding for - show / pet / work?

first thanks for your time they are labradoodles and i ment the last 3 or 4 litters we have had she has helped clean the pups and shown really good mothering skills as she did with her own litter last year there are 5 bicths in the house and one dog they all get on well and dad even has a hand in cleaning the pups they are a very tight pack and i have never had any probloms that i read about. very social all of them ,the welping area is my office,20x20 feet with a coal fire place and seperate boxs eather side of the room with my air bed in the middle as i never leave them alone for the first few weeks also it may be helpfull to know that she had a unplanned tie with a stray last season and as she had just had a litter i did not want her to have back to back litters or for that matter with a unsutible dog ,and was given the morning after so to speak 4 shots 2 on one day 2 the next i was told by my vet that though she came back in to season earlier than she should 3 months it would be fine to mate her ??? and it would have no side effects i wonder how sound that advice was now... and i find it hard to understand why a bicth with her own litter to look after and protect would kill anothers pups all my girls would protect any of the others pups without any hesitation ive seen it before when a fellow came to view and he was a bit wierd before he had even seen the pups my wife gave me the signel he wasent getting one of her pups ...he approched the box and 4 of the girls turned and blocked his path and gave a little snarl they did not like him and needless to say he left empty handed i trust there instink as much as my 2 year old daughters if she dont like there somthing wrong with you and they are breed for familys and guide dogs

 Quote: mandy campbell

they are a very tight pack

In my opinion, therein lies one of your problems. They should not be a pack. Period. YOU should be the leader and the one protecting these dogs from strangers and stray dogs, and unfortunately, from each other.

By allowing them to become a pack, you have provided the opportunity for them to "take matters into their own hands", as evident by this dog killing a pup from another litter.

It sounds like there needs to be some major changes in the ways these dogs are being managed, imho. Separate crates/kennels and NO access to litters other than their own and 100% secure outside kennels/yard. (Meaning no bitch in heat is EVER outside in an area where another dog can get in or she can get out.)

ETA: Welcome to the forum! I'm very glad you found Leerburg and are open to getting some help!

Each female with pups should have her own secure area where she can feel safe and be with her pups without interruptions from strange people or other dogs. Some females will kill their own pups if they don't have a secure whelping area.

In a wild wolf pack, there will only be one litter on the ground at a time. It will be the litter of the breeding pair. Other females will help with feeding and cleaning of the pups within the parameters set by the mother. All members of the pack will contribute to protection of the den and pups.

You are VERY lucky you didn't have a major fight when that pup was killed. Bitch fights aren't fun, and I can't even imagine one between two nursing mothers protecting their pups.

I am guessing if they both had litters together before, the younger of the dogs was more submissive, and this time she felt her rank was higher than the other dog. Maturity does that to younger dogs....

Good luck with your next litter.

Killing another bitch's pups is not uncommon for wild wolves. Makes sense. Less mouths to feed means better survival for her litter. Usually, there is only one breeding pair of wolves per pack.

There are a whole lot of important differences between wolves and dogs but the hormones involved with nursing females are powerful influences of behavior. It does not mean she is going to be more aggressive to humans in the future, or that she is unsound in any way. She is a mother with a mother's instincts and strong hormonal influence.

Oops, sorry Kelly. I was writing while you were.

Great minds must think alike

What Kelly said.

You are not going to get any better or more tactful advice that that. Your set up and whelping routine is so alien from what the majority of breeders on this board practice that I think most of us don't really know where to start.

I am there leader and when i say they are a tight pack i include myself ...
secure outside kennels you say i would never dream of having my family live out side and try as we might we cant always protect every one all the time ...
i understand the mentallity of a bicth that might do harm to anothers pup but not when she herself has a liter of there own
i belive its a hormonel thing with the vet contributing i should have let her have another season before mating her
thanks for the replys

Mandy, in no way did I suggest having your dogs live outside; I advised secure outside kennels for when a bitch is in heat. NOT living outside in a kennel, but having a safe, secure place to prevent "opps" litters.

Please don't shut down because you didn't hear what you wanted to hear... the health and lives of your dogs is at risk. Stick around, keep an open mind and see if there isn't something you can do differently the next time around to prevent this from happening again. Aren't you ALWAYS going to be dealing with "hormonal" issues when breeding dogs?

Betty and Kelly are just two of the many very experienced folks who can help you with this...