Hi Everyone, I would appreciate your feedback on this. Jethro (11 months) and I attended our first class for his third round of obedience lessons (we've completed Puppy and Basic). I am not intending to do any competition with Jethro, our obedience work together is to train me, and build our bond for working together.I have been working really hard to reduce, and hopefully eliminate, Jethro's reactivity - on leash, in the house, in the car. I am happy to report that we are having some success!

I am implementing a combination of LB's building pack structure, Leslie McDevitt's Control Unleashed (more treats/clicker training), and Emma Parson's Click to Calm. I'm also employing Turid Rugaas' Calming Signals and NILF.

Now we are back in Obedience Class and Jethro's arch nemesis, an intact, good natured staffy named Hank (from our Basic series of classes), is back in relatively close proximity.

During our basic round of obedience classes the instructor insisted on not using any treats in the training sessions, that was when we had to switch Jethro to a prong collar to make it possible to get through the lessons. Despite his reactivity, Jethro was second in his class, in terms of his mastery of the obedience skills (he is awesome to train).

Now we are back in the same room - and Hank is in the class, too. Please note - Hank is not provoking Jethro (that I can see). Jethro just has this hard core reaction. But not only Hank, other dogs, as well. My big challenge is teaching Jethro to look at me instead of the other dogs, no matter what is going on.

Given what I know today about building our bond, desensitizing, and appropriate corrections, I'm not sure attending these classes is Jethro's best learning experience. On the other hand, being in the classes is helping me improve my game (confidence, handling skills, training routines), and it inspires me to practice our exercises more frequently during the week.

Next week I am going to try getting to class early and letting Jethro practice his exercises with me before the other dogs arrive and as they enter the room. I'm also going to take him out more often when he has a reaction - just remove him from the training room and walk a little steam off outside. I've checked with the trainer and she is okay with me using treats to help Jethro focus. That is what we are using out in the big, wide world to help him switch gears.

Any thoughts?

Any progress is good progress, sounds like your doing well, one thing tho I am a little confused as to why the trainer said not to use treats in the class to train, what is the reward for the dogs when they perform properly. Maybe you can clairify.

The reward is verbal, a "good dog". So the correction is verbal, then a leash 'pop', the reward is praise.

 Quote: jenny arntzen

The reward is verbal, a "good dog". So the correction is verbal, then a leash 'pop', the reward is praise.

IMO, that reward system is not nearly rewarding enough for 99% of dogs in that type of setting.

Good for you for modifying your approach/using a good reward system to work on what your dog really needs!! Because if you just listened to that trainer, I'm pretty sure your issues would be escalating instead of improving.

 Quote: jenny arntzen

The reward is verbal, a "good dog". So the correction is verbal, then a leash 'pop', the reward is praise.

So the emphasis - the focus - is on correction.

I'm with Mara 100%. How much better (from my POV) for the emphasis to be on what IS wanted, and how good stuff comes from it.

Being told "good boy" is not enough to motivate 99.999% of dogs to stop chasing the squirrel into the street and "come" when called.

Being told "good boy" is markedly less fun than chasing things that run away, barking at things, chewing on things, etc.
In fact, for most dogs, being told "good boy" means absolutely nothing, unless "good boy" is a cue that something really awesome is about to happen. Words don't mean much to a dog. They don't speak english.

Working on a high level distraction in the presence of that distraction is a tough way to go. You'll have to put more pressure on then what's normally needed in correction or, for marker training (my choice), the reward for ignoring has to be very high level.
Your dog has to better understand what your trying to accomplish.
Work on lower level distractions until they are solid.

Thank you for your insights! I had a feeling something wasn't right. Of course a verbal reward is not going to compete with an intact male 5 feet away. And Jethro is a hard dog, so any physical correction has to be very strong to register. On the plus side he is highly food motivated and we are having great luck in the outside world. I just listened to Ed's podcast on food rewards and realized I need to add more variety and interest. For next week I am going to take in Jethro's highest value reward (that I know so far - heated organic hot dog bits) to help reinforce wanted behaviour and avoid unwanted behaviour.

I think, if I prepare myself properly, Jethro and I can learn a lot from this experience. I'll keep monitoring it, and if he seems to be more anxious rather than less, overall, I'll just take a raincheck for the remaining classes and pick them up when he is more solid in his ability to pay attention to me in highly distracting situations.

 Quote: Jenny Arntzen

Next week I am going to try getting to class early and letting Jethro practice his exercises with me before the other dogs arrive and as they enter the room.

I have a dog that is very reactive when we go to group classes, though for a different reason. He's not the least bit aggressive toward any other dogs, but he does go over the top with excitement and play mentality. To help curb this, I make it a point to get to my classes early so I can work with him individually on focus and relaxation and getting him stoked about his treats.

If I don't do this and I walk into a room already full of dogs, it's so much more difficult to get his attention. It makes a big difference if he's one of the first ones there.

Well, I have had time to reflect and have decided to withdraw from the class for the time being.

I just don't feel comfortable taking Jethro back into a class where the instructor, seeing there are 3 or 4 barking dogs in a class of 6, brings out a spray bottle of bitter apple, encouraging us all to spray our dogs if we can't get them to stop barking.

It should tell me something that all the commands we were working through in class were commands easily in Jethro's repertoire outside the class, but inside the class I couldn't get him to Sit from a Down - not once (we do puppy push ups everyday).

He was very stressed the whole time, there were moments when he would work with me to some degree, but he was not having fun. I want Jethro to associate training and obedience with good things, I honestly don't have the shoulder strength to continuously enforce strong corrections. Part of my training with him is teaching him what is wanted and avoiding corrections as much as possible, keeping them to a low threshold. This way I can save my shoulders and arms for those moments when I have to throw my whole weight behind them.

The good news is that since I started working with Control Unleashed, in conjunction with Building Pack Structure, I haven't had to deal with a severe reaction (5 days) except in the class.

I just have to trust the guidance of what I am learning outside formal lessons for the time being. I can see how it might be a good idea to go back into that class later, as a proofing exercise, not necessarily to learn specific obedience skills. For now Jethro and I are too tender for that level of intensity.