I took our GSD and shih-tzu to our fireworks tent last week. They were popular with our customers and there were many children that petted our GSD, even one little 15 mo. toddler that stood next to her and pulled on her ears for a while and GSD ignored him completely. What puzzles me is this: one little boy, age 3, was petting the tip of nose and she snapped at him. To me it seemed her intent was not to bite, but rather a "leave me alone" message. She was very tired and was trying to sleep, although she was not asleep when this happened. I have NEVER seen her do something like this, and we go to a lot of public events where she is petted a lot by children and toddlers. Here's an interesting side note: this child was a boy we did surgery on last year for a fractured femur that his dad inflicted (who is now out of jail and was with this kid at our tent). What should I make of all this? Just a tired dog who wanted to be left alone? Or more? I am on my guard now.

I'm not one of the resident experts here, but I think that it's within the realm of possibility that it was a tired dog thing. The other thing I would think, is if the boy was standing directly in front of her, while she was lying down, possibly even leaning over her a bit and touching her muzzle, this would be a dominant/confrontational stance on the boy's part. Maybe she wasn't comfortable with that.

I have a theory that most dogs can sense that infants and toddlers are babies, and don't know the rules of social interaction. But once the kids get a bit bigger, they're expected to know some basic manners, and you'll see the dog be less tolerant. Similar to how puppies are regarded by adult dogs. They'll put up with things from a 10 week old puppy that they would never accept from a 6 month old pup. Just my little theory, I could be wrong.

Anyway; the dog is always at fault, remember that. If your dog got to the point where she snapped, then you probably should have given her a break from all the attention long before that. Also, you might want to coach kids through the proper way to pet a dog, and make sure that they don't inadvertently use body language that they shouldn't.

I disagree Chuck. My Schnauzer will "snap" at the young-dumb-shepherd when he has overstepped his bounds. She is by no means missing, it is a warning. Often very close to his face, beard "rolled up"(there is a lot of hair there, gotta show some tooth). Not to mention I had plenty of dogs while I was grooming that wouldn't growl, but would snap. And again, they were missing on purpose. Some didn't miss, but that is another story. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

OK...I should of clarified. 9 times out of 10 a snap is a bite that missed.LOL :rolleyes: <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Chuck,

I would disagree. 9 of 10 times a snap is an intentional miss. Had the dog wanted to bite the kid I doubt that the kid could have moved quick enough to get out of the way. A snap is a step up in warning from a growl, it is followed by a bite if the point doesn't get across. Dogs use a lot of noise and snaps to teach lessons. If the dog wants to really bit there is often little warning and the dog ill hit something, maybe not the intended target, but sonething. If the intention is to bite they also don't quit without physical intervention, until they meet their goal.

OK, 5 times out of.....AHHHHHHHH <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Richard,

I have to take you to task on the statement that 9 times out of 10 a snap is an intentional miss. I just don't think that is true. Since I don't really want to try and debate that with you(your a pretty bright dude, shit, I know my limitations already! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> LOL) I'll just respectfully agree to disagree.

My point is really to say that a snap is more than just a little warning. If your dog is willing to snap I believe he is willing to bite. God help any dog of mine that snaps at a kid in my presence.

I agree with Chuck, in that the "snap" was just a warning, but more importantly, it is a serious insight into the fact that this dog is making up his/her own mind to discipline humans. I'm afraid to say that two of my own dogs would do the same if caught in an "uncomfortable" situation with kids. I don't have small kids at my home to where I can actively set up a correction that gives the dog guidance as to how to deal with a child's poor manners. I am constantly on my guard that this does not happen, and if I do allow one of my dogs the "opportunity" to react this way, I will be in super correction mode with that dog. I try myself to do the little things that kids usually do that irritate a dog, and the slightest resentment is firmly corrected, with a reward if there is tolerance. I realize it won't be the same for a child, but this practice should help a little. My approach is that ALL dogs will bite under certain circumstances, it's my job to know what those circumstances are and to keep my dog out of trouble. None of us know it all, and we can never let our guard down. Susan

Chuck,

The point is that the dog is attempting to teach a lesson. There is a definite progression: Growl, Snap, Bite. If allowed to progress and the Lessonee doesn't learn, the dog will continue until the lesson is learned. This is also why progressing escalation in correction works with training, it is a language they understand.

I agree about a snapping dog, at a child in particular. It isn't up to the dog to administer the lesson, it is my job. It is also my job to read my dog and identify when the dog is getting to a point that it will feel the need to administer a "lesson". This why it is so critical to be able to read your dog. In a similar situation we went to a festival with our Giant(Therapy Dog). A small girl about 6-7 walked up to him and hugged him around the neck, and then wouldn't let go. The dog was fine with it for about the first minute, then you could see it was starting to make him nervous that he couldn't move. Had we not told the little girl to let go I have no doubt that he would have given her a "lesson" in doggy rules. This could have been particularly bad as her face was pressed firmly against his. He may have gotten her, not intentionally, but because there was no room for him to move.

Point well taken. I probably should not have made a blanket statement. When I think about it, I have witnessed on a couple of occasions a dog snap at someone and I'm not sure if the dog was really trying to bite. This was accompanied by a short burst of frantic barking(a second or two). It seems that it's kind of like a pitcher pitching inside to a hitter....I'm not trying to hit you but if you don't get out of the way in time then so be it. Any way you slice it, this is much worst than a growl and the dog needs to be taught a serious lesson.