I was just reading a post on the general dog chat forum regarding the whole e-collar issue, ( I use the e-collar and the prongs on my Boerboels, a stink eye is enough to halt the pointers in their tracks!) and saw, not for the first time the sentiment that a lot of people in European countries are 'subjects' rather than 'citizens'

Being English, born and brought up here, I have to say I have never felt that being part of a monarchy has oppressed, or suppressed my right as an individual, on the contrary, we have freedom of movement and speech, and free will, I live in a small rural village where the most heinous crime on a Saturday night is some daft kid who has had too many alcopops thinking its a wizard wheeze to move someones wheelie bin into the road, no one carries guns or tasers, exception of course in the case of villains robbing Banks, or nutters with some issue they may have with society not wiping there bums for them, there is mostly law and order and we are allowed to protest against real or imagined civil rights issues.

I am genuinely interested in why some people in the US think being a UK subject is such a restriction, Is it the 'right to bare arms' philosophy alone, or do Americans have other privileges that we do not enjoy?

Don't get me wrong, I am not being provocative for the sake of it, and having an ancestry that includes native American, Irish, Scots and Welsh, I am not xenophobic, just honestly can't understand the problem with living in a country that has a democratically elected government, a Monarchy, (that may well be a source of amusement to republican countries, but most definitely provides us with a rich history, a very welcome tourist industry) and a hugely, and largely tolerant multi-cultural society that doesn't have the need or inclination to tool up every time it takes its dogs out!

Well that's the blue touch paper lit, bracing myself now for a remonstration from Will, be gentle with me Will, you are a scary man !

Kind regards
Tracey

Being a subject in Australia and being held to ransom by the two men who decided what government we'd have not real keen on this democracy stuff here, not sure if we follow your model but especially this time around it really sucked!!

Hi Brad

Have to admit I am totally ignorant about Aussie politics!

I have a cousin in Brisbane, so for her and the rest of you guys, am heart sorry about all the hideous disasters your weather is causing you, cannot imagine the trauma that is all causing, I guess rebuild is going to be a long, hard climb back, sympathies to you and yours.

Tracey

Tracey,
Since I was the one that mentioned it, yes it is strictly about bearing arms.
I take my civil liberties very serious, and I've "voted with my feet" by making a late-in-life move to the State with the highest level of freedom in the Nation with the highest level of freedom.

I'm not looking for security, I'm looking for liberty, and I live in an area where that is considered very important.

As far as the U.K., no matter how much freedom you feel that you have under your current government, if said government decides to eliminate those freedoms, you cannot do beans about that.
Will that happen? Probably not - but countries in which this happened to in history didn't see a loss of their freedoms coming at them, I'll bet.

I've seen with my own eyes how an unarmed population are like sheep to the slaughter when ruled by a dictator ( and many of our vets here can back me up on this sad fact ) and that will *never* happen to my family or I.

If the world took a terrible turn for the worst, I might die fighting with a MBR in my hand, but I won't be one of the sheep that are herded into a concentration camp or lined up into a ditch and shot because I stupidly allowed myself to be disarmed for the "greater good" of society.

A line from the movie "V for Vendetta" explains this much more eloquently than I:

"People should not be afraid of their government, governments should be afraid of their people"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzjrIk05YyU

 Quote: will rambeau

A line from the movie "V for Vendetta" explains this much more eloquently than I:

"People should not be afraid of their government, governments should be afraid of their people"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzjrIk05YyU

That says it very well, If I had the $$$'s freedom's where I'd be moving to!!

 Quote: tracey holden

I am genuinely interested in why some people in the US think being a UK subject is such a restriction, Is it the 'right to bare arms' philosophy alone, or do Americans have other privileges that we do not enjoy?

Tracey, In addition to what Will said, I'll add that no matter how much you wanted to grow up and take a shot at being the Queen, unless you marry a Prince, that simply won't happen. Our system is not perfect, but I do appreciate the fact that any individual, regardless of their "lot in life" has the opportunity to become President.

When run properly, with citizens held accountable for their own actions and the weak businesses allowed to fail, I think a Republic offers the most freedom and opportunity to the individual. Regardless of the "richness" of the parent's blood.

But I admit, the royals sure know how to throw a wedding. (And trust me, it is not only your monarchy which provides ammusement ...)

I live in a comuni... oups I mean socialist country, well all the same it suck! I work the keep lazy people on wellfair.

Blimey, no one in their right mind would want to be the Queen, all that inbreeding!

Know what you say about dictatorships, most of my family, including my oldest son have been involved in one war or another, as for bearing arms, I know I would like to at times, but for probably all the wrong reasons, I fear I would have shot 2 ex husbands...

Would it be inpolite to ask which country you moved to the States from?

The thing is the political system in England has little to do with being a monarchy these days. The royalty are just rich and celebrated for being rich, and out of tradition. They have some pull, but rich people everywhere have more pull than they should.

I personaly think a modern parlimentary system allows its citizens more impact to create change. A firestrom of outrage in public opinion can lead to a total flip of the system and leadership in a matter of days.

It also allows the current leadership to get away with a lot of BS in the mean time. A lot of stupid rules and policy can be created quickly. Something big has to happen that really ticks people off for the change to start.

IMO that is still better than the leadership being able to do whatever they want and not really having to worry about consequence for two to four years.

This is not to say that I am some America hating lefty, far from it. I love my country and appreciate the freedoms we have. But its the Constitution that allows us freedoms, not the political system.

So we do have freedom, but our system was originaly set up with a decent amount of elitism as well. Not all of the people in the beginings of our country believed in the citizens having power.

I guess what I'm saying is that the definition of freedom is subjective to what is important to the individual, that no one way is perfect, and that no matter what the rich have way too much sway.