I have a friend that wanted me to evaluate his dog, of course it was a Rottiwelier,3 yrs. old 115 lb. He wanted to know if it would be worth the money to Protection train. His idea was that being naturally aggressive he would be a good canidate.

The dog was tied out and he stayied that way until his owner walked him or played with him.
The owner stated," He is too mean to keep off the chain."

On sight of me in the back yard the dog went crazy barking and lunging on the chain. Even though I was with his owner the dog kept barking and growling. He owner didn't even try to stop this action. The owner could cautiously approach and pet the dog, but the dog kept barking and growling at me, almost nipped him.

The owner put him on leash and the problem got worst, barking, lunging a circlig his owner and lunging. It was a tug of war to get him back on his chain.

We went back to his living room, the guy smiling in approval. Until ...

I told him that, the dog was poorly socailized, was territoral and vicious. He is an accident waiting to happen. I informed him that the dog was out of control and until he gets some Ob training should never be let of leash.
I informed him that though the dog showed an tendancy toward being aggression, but may only be masking his fears. This is hard for the layman to understand they all think a big dog barking and growling means a strong dog.

I explained that a lot of that is the dogs knows from the past that this action will run the stranger away.

The main thing is the dog needs to be brought under control before it can be trained to do anything, if and I doubt it has the nerves for such training. Once this is done by a Pro trainer, then the dog can be evaluated, other wise don't waste your money.

I advised that he get a second opinion, because of my limited experience dealing with such animals (most dogs I've been around the owner had some kind of control, a sit or a down or a stop or ok in presence of the owner)I'm not a Professional trainer. I'm just trying to save you some time and money, which is the reason he asked me to look at his dog.

He still felt that his dogs has the right stuff.

Whats your opinion on this? What did I miss? Was I too hard on this friends dog? Whats his real chances of reversing this? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

You are not mean at all, but realistic. I think only a very good trainer can help him. The urge in my opinion is not training this dog for protection work, but firstly socialize him well and make him trust his owner. This probably should be done very kindly, easily, with strong motivation.
I seriously doubt your friend is able to handle this dog:

We went back to his living room, the guy smiling in approval. No offense, but I think the biggest problem with this dog is his owner. It takes time for the man changes his behavior, build confidence, be patient and receptive, even if he really wants to (which I imagine it's not the case). Maybe I'm wrong, but I think only a good trainer can deal with both the man and the dog.
One of my dogs is an ex-stray. The situation is completely different, my dog had to struggle for his life for about 5 years in the street and he was very selectively agressive towards people and animals. It took me one year and I don't consider to be finished yet (I keep him as a companion dog), as I am not experienced in handling such kind of dogs. But I never tried to handle him the way I was used to the other dogs. I just had to adapt so that I understand him better and he trusts me.

 Quote:

Originally posted by Don B. Ackerson:
I told him that, the dog was poorly socailized, was territoral and vicious. He is an accident waiting to happen. I informed him that the dog was out of control and until he gets some Ob training should never be let of leash.

This pretty much sums it up!

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Hi Don

I think you were to kind, in my experience, the prison services use this method to get rottie’s very aggressive that run in corridors, we tried to re-train one, had to shoot it after it turned on the handler and would not let go.

Even with a Pro trainer, What the chance of reversing this? Is this a server case of lack of socailization or has the owner unintentional trained this type behaviour?

Would most end up like Geel's example? Destroyed. Could he ever be a just a pet or junk yard guardian? Could he have any uses?

If, as you say, the owner has to cautiously approach the dog, then there is nothing he, himself could do. He's afraid of the dog IMO.

WOW, too hard absolutely not, I think you went too easy on him! That dog sounds like a ticking time bomb. The owner is lucky that no-one including himself has been attacked or mauled by it yet, and the dog for the safety of everyone in the community should be taken away from the owner. I really doubt if there is any hope for the dog, and only an experienced trainer should try to work and own this dog, but IMO the dog would be better off put down. I don't think anyone could ever trust it. Scary that the owner thought that the dog should still be trained in Protection training, obvisouly the lightbulb has burnt out in his head. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Here are my thoughts. Lots of people like the idea of having a protection dog for whatever reason. Wether they need one or not. So they think they can take there dog somewhere and have protection"installed" on their dog as if its like getting a new car stereo put in. Obedience is a must and in training an adult dog it comes first. The fact is that a protection dog is a commitment if not a way of life, an ungoing hobby. I would say if this guy has let his dog turn into a mess like it is now he probably doesnt have the commitment it takes to have a protection trained dog. I would advise him to obed. train his dog to the point of off leash control. Id say he'll probably give up long before he ever reaches it and decide he really doesnt want his dog protection trained after all.

IMO the dog would have a difficult time learning Ob from this owner. The dogs is use to being the boss, I don't know what this guys was thinking, except that he has and wanted a bad dog. But it seems that hes the dogs pet.

When they walk, the street is cleared anybody or anything that crosses this dogs path is lunged and barked at or ran upon. I don't think that he has bitten any human, but he has bitten plenty of inquistive dogs.

When walked the dogs walks out front at the end off the 6 foot lead moving side to side as if he is looking for a challange. I mentioned a shorter hold on the leash for control, and the owner mentioned that he doesn't want to be that close. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
He mentioned that its a real workout just walking this dog. Pride and sweat on his face. I'm thinking why, I've let him look at a couple tapes.
He still don't get it. ITS CONTROL.
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
The dog could not be taken from this owner because he is proud of this dog??? Somehow or where I thinks the dogs attached to his masculinity. :rolleyes:

I personally think that anyone that would try to work OB with this dog, (I mean I don't like begging or using lots of treats to get a dog to do what I ask) unless he is a very good trainer, he stand a good chance of getting bitten or lunged at asking this dog to down in OB.

I've recently looked the dog in the eyes, I don't think he is fearful because he won't break the stare until he lunges or challenges you. Could have been a nice dog probablly.

The Dogs main problem is he thinks he rules. Imagine any 3 yr * 7 = 21 yr old man, you just now telling him everything he knows and have done is wrong, here how we are gonna change it. You know THE FIGHTS ON!!!

If a dog has a problem like this, would a trainer charge more? Or is this looked at a professional challeng.


I got a bad feeling about this one. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Sounds like a serious case of poor socialization and learned aggression. God help the child that gets in the way when this dog gets loose. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />