Can anybody share their experiences with teaching a dog to not whine?

Logan, my almost-3-year-old male Doberman, has a habit of whining almost all the way through the long down stay exercise. At the novice level, that would be a three-minute period. At the fun match I attended today, it escalated into something between howling and yodeling .

I have tried marker training the "quiet" command without success. If I stand very close to him and say "good quiet" and give him a treat every ten seconds or so, he does well, but I have not had any luck extending the duration or my distance from him.

Some people have suggested ignoring him. Doesn't work. One of my instructors suggested setting a tempting treat about 10 feet in front of him to give him something to concentrate on. Doesn't work. And most recently, one of my instructors wanted me to try putting a big glob of peanut butter inside his mouth. That kept him quiet for two and a half of the three minutes. As soon as he had most of the peanut butter gone, he started whining again.

Whining all through the long down is an NQ (non-qualifying score) in AKC. I can't even begin to think of showing him at trials until I get this fixed.

I am thinking of using the electronic collar for this, but I don't want to make any mistakes. I feel confident that I know how to use the collar; I just don't know if this is the type of situation in which it is appropriate. He is familiar with the collar as I have used it in the past to teach him to come in from the yard when I call him and to not play so rough with my other dog. So far, he has been very responsive to it at just a very low setting. In fact, it has a "beep" function, and he usually will respond to just that.

Any insights or suggestions are appreciated.

Does he understand what "quiet" is?

 Quote: dennis jones

Does he understand what "quiet" is?

Honestly, you'd have to ask him that question because I don't know if he does or not . I think I understand what you're getting at, though. Obviously, if a dog doesn't know what "quiet" means, it's not going to have any effect to keep telling him "quiet."

So I guess that's what I'm asking for help with. How do you teach a dog the meaning of the command "quiet," and beyond that, how do you teach a dog to be quiet without the command, since that's not a command I can use in the obedience ring?

I've been told by many very experienced people that sometimes there is a genetic component to this which is often aggravated by the amount of time this has been allowed to go on.

If it has been going on long enough it becomes a reflexive behavior when the dog does not make a choice to whine, it just happens. Corrections won't help in this case because there is no understanding of "wrongdoing".

You could ask somebody with a better understanding (than the peanut butter person) of the issue to help you to make evaluation - could this be changed or if it won't be worth the trouble.

I have no personal experience with successfully stopping the whining (it's not that big of a deal with the one of our dogs that does it) but this problem seems to be so pervasive that I took pains to ask pretty much everybody I meet about it

Ana, I talked to my dog's breeder today after the match, and when she asked me how he did, I said, "Well, good, except for ...." and I told her about the whining. She said, "Oh, yeah, it's a Doberman thing!" and she was the one who suggested using the e-collar.

I think you are on to something when you say he may be doing this now out of pure reflex as opposed to choosing to do it. It has gone on for a very long time, with me trying all the remedies suggested to me, all in vain.

I honestly don't believe it is as simple as being a "Doberman thing," because in the part of the country where I live, Dobermans are very common in the obedience ring, and I've yet to hear one whining on the long stays. And my breeder, in fact, has had many of her dogs compete very successfully in obedience and other performance events.

I've asked everyone I've met about it, too, and so far I have not gotten an answer on how to fix this. I sure hope it's fixable; otherwise, there is no obedience career in this dog's future.

 Quote: cheri grissom

how do you teach a dog to be quiet without the command, since that's not a command I can use in the obedience ring?

Theoretically assuming that the dog knows "quiet" command, in the training you will say "down" "quiet", reward only if the dog keeps both "down" and "quiet". After some time, fade "quiet" command. The dog will understand that "down" means "quiet" as well.

Have you tried a sharp interuption noise just before he starts up?

While our "quiet" over here is pretty solid, the one thing it doesn't work for is if she starts barking at me while we play.

I've learned the face she makes just before she starts and I catch it with that "ah!" noise. It really works, and with consistency she is doing it less and less overall.

It would probably take a long time but its worth a shot. If your timing is good, it might also be easier for him to connect to the whining than other types of corrections. At the very least it won't take away from any of the other work you have done.

Yowza, this is a tough one. You may want to go back to square one, as if he were an 8 week old puppy. Take it in teeny tiny steps, reinforcing frequently for "down AND quiet". If he's an "operant" dog, the moment he makes a peep, mark with "nope" (or whatever your NRM is) and start again.

I am talking teeny, tiny baby steps, and maybe even installing a different cue. Actually, definitely installing a different cue. Keep the rate of reinforcement very high for "down AND quiet".

Not sure I can visualize doing this any other way, but maybe someone else has a better idea.

Tracy

It's a TOTAL Doberman thing. They are by nature a very vocal breed, and in their minds the higher the pitch, the better. Yodel-howling is their specialty. My dog thinks it's the equivalent of a beautiful soliloquy. There are some quiet ones, but they are rare. The majority of them know that it's not appropriate to vocalize during obedience, but some need to be taught.

I had the same problem with my dog, and Cindy suggested rewarding the quiet when it occurred. The only downside here is that my dog is quick witted (and I'm sure my timing isn't nearly what Cindy's is), so in his mind the chain was "I whine, I stop, I get food". If he didn't get food very quickly after ceasing to whine (even though he was marked immediately), the whine grew in intensity: "See? I WHINED and then I STOPPED! Feed me!"

I ended up using the electric collar (also Cindy's suggestion) just to interrupt the whine so I could reward the quiet. I had to hit the button the instant my dog started whining though. It did work for awhile, but then he started whining more after getting corrected.

I eventually had to stop what I was doing, put my dog away and actively ignore him until he quieted down. He did eventually get the message and it's no longer a problem.

For example: I would put my dog in a down-stay. if he
1) stayed quietly for the time I asked, he would be released, rewarded and party-time would ensue.
but if
2)I put him in a down-stay and he started whining, I would go get him calmly and immediately and put him away for a few minutes without comment. When he settled down, I would try again.

I did it as many times as it took to get even a brief, quiet down-stay, then I would reward heavily and move on to play.

It was really frustrating and slow going at first, but once he got the idea he really got it and he doesn't whine during obedience at all anymore.

I wouldn't count on getting three quiet minutes for awhile, but set it up to get a successful amount of time, and be uber-patient.

I just went to Michael Ellis seminar and he said that some dogs can't help it and it can't be fixed. Good luck!