ok..so as many of you know..i have my hands full

just some interesting thing I thought I would ask about. since i have never owned a GDS before I thought you all might be able to tell me if this is normal or somthing i should be worried about.

Little ace-E pooh loves me..but he seems to be quite vocal about certain things. we started to learn the "out" command the other day. my club adviced to start saying the word "out" and then slipping his lower lip over his teeth gently till he lets go. I thought that might not be the best way to teach the out..but because he refuses to let go for ANYTHING else (not a toy not food nothing other than waiting till he gets bored with it and then grabbing it) I thought ok..maybe they are right. Today we started very very gently. did he let go..no. so i added a little more presure after using the out. i was amazed when he let go. Then I tried again..the SECOND i used the "out" command he starts giving me lip. i'm talking about the sound frustration high pitched and growly sounds. not a reg growl..but his excited bark but through his clentched teeth. Did i do the wrong thing? or is he just giving me attitude?
ok..and then there is our recent vocalization...ace thought I had gone upstairs and darted up them. when I called him for the recall (which he is GREAT at!) i heard him flip around and start running towards the stairs..high pitched barking instantly insued. barked all the way down the stairs until he got to me..and jumped all over me till he finally sat at my feet and realized I hadn't left him at all. He has no seperation anxiety while in his crate. just chews on his toys and watches us.
normally i can judge tones of barking on rotties, pits and almost any other breed. but i am at a loss for gsds. watching them work they have all kinds of pitch in barking..and he's a pup so i can't even begin to guess if it's anxity, frustration, anger, or if i am doing somthing completely wrong.
please any advice would be great!

thanks...i have not used one negative piece of training on him yet and was very hesitant to try this. but since it was from my club i thought it might not be too bad. how should i go about getting that darn rag out of his mouth then? if i try saying "out" and then pull out another toy he looks at me like i'm stupid but will spit the rag out. he just wont leave it and has started to guard it. i want to stop this asap. i want him to know it's my toy but i have failed in some way and now need to know how to regain the control or ownership of the rag.

oh and if i just stop animating the tug (this was before i used the lip thing) and just sat there and held it he would do the high pitched bark through his teeth as well. i took that as him being frustrated becuase i stopped playing. He still didn't let go. he just laid down on his side and held it. i know it's a good thing to hold on..but come on..how in the world am I screwing up. I know it's gotta be me.

Get the tug video and teach him to out the way Michael Ellis does it. My dog learned it in a day, not even kidding. It stuck, too.

If you do it just the way he suggests with the right kind of tug it is all very clear to the dog. No aversive needed.

If you are doing any type of sport you can't go wrong with that dvd.

eta: You were typing at the same time I was. It sounds like he is getting too worked up. I would try tugging with less energy for a shorter time before making the toy go dead.

 Quote: Stephanie Bishop

thanks...i have not used one negative piece of training on him yet and was very hesitant to try this. but since it was from my club i thought it might not be too bad.

Something tells me you have a lot of dogs in your club that get dirty with the helper in the blind.

Is it a little early for outting? Maybe its just the way we do things in my neck of the woods (I have limited experience) but I thought thats not something you want to do for a while because of drive and grip building.

Probably lots of varying opinion on that.... I just thought the OP had a young dog.

I thought I'd seen somewhere you (Aaron) prefer lifting a dog off a bite rather than outting. I could easily be confusing people though.

Edited by Jessica Pedicord (03/24/2011 10:16 AM)
Edit reason: clarification

Very good point Jessica! I think this pup is about 13 weeks now? Aaron? Isn't that a big young to work out outting? Shouldn't it just be a trade, at that point? I know that Stephanie said he won't trade for food or toy, but I bet it could be worked on.

yup..have a few that are dirty..you nailed that

I will bring his two fav toys out and if he doesn't go after the second one after i have said the word out I'll just put him up. maybe he'll get that if he goes for the second one he can still play and if he doesn't he has to be put up. does that sound like it might work?
I have a BIG club i attend..and some are amazing dogs with no dirty buisiness what so ever and very well behaved. and then there are some that bite their own handlers over a retrieved dum bell. and of course about 2 dirty biters in the blinds. OH and don't even get me started on a few that will NOT do obedience while in bite work...unless at a high level of correction from the e-collar. But again..there are about 4 people there who are all positive reinforcment, don't teach corrections till they are 18+ months old and have very even tempered dogs.
From now on I will be asking ya'll for your oppinion on their "advice".
Thanks so much for your help!