 shaping down
#326282 - 04/08/2011 10:13 AM |
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this one is hard, treats do not work, so i have been trying to do it with toys, and am getting my knuckles chewed, gloves become Pisa's focus so I can't wear them. ( she split my knuckle and it oozed for two days before scabing over)
Am I going to mess up if I wait much longer to work on shaping behaviours ? she is 13 weeks
I am focusing on socilzing, 2 to 3 trips to town a week with lots of stops each time in new spots, working her at home on grates, rocks, pails whatever is out of the norm for every day
I have no problem with the sit, as long as she know or sees a toy, even in the middle of play with a cat in the room she will sit perfectly for a toy, we play, sit, play, sit, no problem
My other dogs were raised without expectations, just wanted cool pets and took 3 years to get where they are today.
I can totally admit training is hard with Pisa being alowed to bite me, I have altered her feedings to try to maximize her food drive, and the toy is king, always
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Re: shaping down
[Re: Dave Owen ]
#326285 - 04/08/2011 10:21 AM |
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Dave you said that treats don't work, but maybe you just haven't found the right one. Some treats just don't motivate like others.
Small bits of steak or chicken are a 100 X more enticing than say a small biscuit.
Also the best time to train is when you dog is hungry. Many times this is in the morning, on an empty stomach or right before dinner.
Recently I found that my dogs LOVE liverwurst and will do just about anything for that.
Just keep changing up the treats to see if that will work.
Joyce Salazar
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Re: shaping down
[Re: Joyce Salazar ]
#326289 - 04/08/2011 11:40 AM |
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Liverwurst is the reward of rewards over here. Its stinky enough to build food drive without the dog going bonkers and loosing focus. HUGE ditto!
How old is this dog?
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Re: shaping down
[Re: Dave Owen ]
#326291 - 04/08/2011 11:47 AM |
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Lauren, this is a 13 wk. old pup.
Dave, definitely try different treats and work this little alligator when she is hungry to see if that makes a difference.
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Re: shaping down
[Re: Barbara Schuler ]
#326296 - 04/08/2011 12:30 PM |
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Duh to me, he said the dogs age in the OP!
There is no rush, people used to wait untill the dog was six months to a year before doing obedience training at all.
However, it is easier to work with a young puppy. They learn so quickly. When you try to teach the pup, how are you doing it?
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Re: shaping down
[Re: Lauren Jeffery ]
#326304 - 04/08/2011 01:42 PM |
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I'm not sure what liverwurst is, but will try any thing, she likes youguart, but really tricky to use.
I thought turkey was the key, and for a couple days it was, I mixed it up with the asst. cut up treats hopeing she would look foward to the good ones.
when I call her to me she runs, sniffs my hand, sometimes grabs what I have, sometimes not, so jack potting is hard.
As for marker training, she turns to look at me 85 %of the time for a treat and usually eats it
she will take any treat from me through her crate and eat it, meat, cheese, or store treats(mostly good ones with some doggy junk food)
as for how I'm training ... I have watched the training with food video lots, and certain parts dozens of times and am trying to duplicate what I see.
The touch pad is great with her, she actually stomps on it for a treat ,
but the down is where I'm stuck, got it only a couple times, she will usually follow a treat, but wont put alot of effort to get it.
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Re: shaping down
[Re: Dave Owen ]
#326305 - 04/08/2011 01:45 PM |
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Do you have her on leash when you are trying to teach her to down? Are you using any pressure, or just a lure?
Also, is this dog going to be a sport dog or a pet?
Sorry for all the questions, just trying to get a mental picture of what is going on.
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Re: shaping down
[Re: Lauren Jeffery ]
#326306 - 04/08/2011 01:57 PM |
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I appreciate the questions Lauren, I'm trying to wrap my head around this all.
I do keep Pisa attatched to me with a flexi lead hooked on my belt to her harness,
no pressure just lure.
I am wanting to sch. with her (she is a rotti)
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Re: shaping down
[Re: Dave Owen ]
#326307 - 04/08/2011 02:03 PM |
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Don't worry it so much.
There's no rush.
Work on the targeting. Learn how to keep your hands out of the bulls eye.
Maybe if you start working with a flirt rag on the end of a line.
Don't worry about downs for the moment. Just have fun with the pup. Ya ain't gonna get any OB from a 13 week old pup anyhow.
Depending on how you do it, you can start putting words to your shaping in a few more weeks.
If toy is king (prey) then I probably wouldn't even mess about with food. Play play play, prey prey prey.
Get down on the floor with the pup, make him crawl over, around and under you for the prey item. Use your imagination, you'd be surprised at the number of things you can shape without going into OB as such.
Just have some fun with the pup.
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Re: shaping down
[Re: Lauren Jeffery ]
#326311 - 04/08/2011 02:18 PM |
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There is no rush, people used to wait untill the dog was six months to a year before doing obedience training at all. That's because the dog was supposed to be old enough to be able to withstand the compulsion-based training.
Motivational methods could be used with very young puppies without negative effects. This kind of training builds engagement and strengthens the bond between the puppy and the owner. Another benefit is establishing clear communication with the puppy that will be used throughout the dog's life.
It is better to develop the proper muscle memory for OB exercises as soon as the puppy is physically capable of performing the movements. The puppy will be sitting and downing even if no OB training is done and sloppy positions (like sitting/laying with the butt plopped on one side) could become a habit.
The early muscle memory training is a game, there is no pressure involved, so it fits nicely within "having fun with your puppy" concept 
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