On our list of "fun things to do" I recently taught Ryuk how to go search behind a designated item I point to (we use trees, dumpsters, piles of dirt, cars, whatever is there). I wanted something like the Shutzhund searches behind blinds...except we don't have blind or a person..so we search for particular toys, items, etc. We've gotten to the point where he will run for the search around an item I point at even if he knows it's not there. If I do not specify where to search he'll go to the item immediately if he knows where it is or will check behind each area to locate the item.

He'll then usually grab the item and bring it to me (I taught this behavior with his retrieving behaviors first). I would like him to bark and indicate where the item would be and only retrieve it if I tell him to....but we're having trouble with that...

Getting him to bark at the item and not grab it isn't that hard as long as someone is hold it (he will not take an item for a person until I specifically tell him to)...but I don't have another person....

I've tried placing the object out of reach (up a tree, etc) but any place I can reach, he can climb or jump up in in a few seconds. I've tried tying thing up there, he brought me the branch with the toy still tied on it....I tried to back up a bit and only do it on leash but as soon as I tell him to search for the item he'll bark and lunge against the leash. He's still trying to get the item, the leash is stopping him, but the intent to get the item is still there...

Any ideas that don't involve another person since I don't have anyone who helps me train?

Just an idea, break the exercise into small pieces and teach them separately. For example:

Bark on command;

Indicate an item without touching it - don't use the actual reward as the item because he can grab it and self-reward for failure and you lose the non-reinforcement option OR always restrain him to prevent touching (this might build drive for the object);

Go there and back (send-away and recall) - you got this one down

Now you could chain this together:

Indicate - Bark;
Search - Indicate - Bark;
eta: Indicate- Bark - Come - forgot about this one
Search - Indicate - Bark - Come;

You could combine Indicate with Bark by always following the first command with the second.

Edited by Ana Kozlowsky (04/09/2011 07:07 PM)
Edit reason: eta

I would second what Ana has suggested. Most important is that he should not be able to pick up the toy and self satisfy. Maybe you can put the toy in a clear plastic jar in the beginning.

You can always take him on a leash in the beginning (till he learns the indication behaviour) and make him sit and bark at the object and then reward with the frisbee or tug. Once he does it 5 or 10 times he will try to bark even with out prompting, mark and reward heavily. After a few days of this (5-10 times a day) you can put the compound behaviour (finding, sitting and barking) on cue. I use Indicate.

I usually use tent pegs to secure the item to the ground and then reward with the favorite toy.... not the item. At the moment he is self-rewarding.

Or find something he doesn't want to pick up like metal and do it that way.

Heh, something he might not want to pick up. Feathers. You can get dried bird wings. Scent trail it too behind what object you pick. Just an idea when things get going for this game.

"Goes to it if he knows where it's at"
The dog will never learn to search if he knows where it's at "OR" if your pointing it out to him.
Put the item in a drawer,under a bed, anywhere the dog can smell it but can't get to it. He has to learn how to use his nose for the game.

So we've had a few sessions. Originally I wasn't using the toy searched for as the reward anyway, but i tried a lower value toy to look for and a higher value one for the reward. The restraint did build drive for the object which made the barking part easier, however he's now not really barking AT the object, he is barking when he finds it but he runs a few feet away and barks at the sky, or his tail, or the grass. I think we're in the right direction at this point at least lol.

I did try the "use something he doesn't want to pick up" unfortunatly he's been hardwired since puppyhood to pick up anything. If he thinks he's supposed to pick it up, he will try (on the plus side he will retrieve anything I tell him too, which is why I originally taught him to do that.....the problem was the communication in this command which was "go to the item but DO NOT pick it up and bring it to me, just bark at it")

Bob: We have a completely different set of commands for searching with scent. I specifically wanted this to be a quick visual search command, he will default to his nose if he doesn't see it. Inside we have "seek _______" for particular items that I've scented with a small dab of different essential oils and have tendency to hide in the apartment (currently we're up to keys, wallet, cell phone, and remote) We use the oils citrus, lavender, peppermint, and rosemary. He'll also find me outside about a half mile away in the woods (we haven't tested any further since the moment "Seek Mommy" is given he is almost impossible for my housemate to handle until he gets to me, he's never been great with other handlers...yes, we've tried to work on it). That's probably going to be the extent of our searching with scent at least for a little while. I wanted him to learn a visual search in preparation for another trick command when we move into our new houseshare since the final item he needs to learn on don't have specific odors.

Bob - and Jamie - it sounds like she wants to train her dog to basically do a BARK AND HOLD type scenario but with an object instead of a person - like in schutzhund. So maybe, Bob, you could describe how to train that. That way they dog could either visually find or scent an item then Bark and Hold when he finds the item. Is this what you're asking, Jamie? It would be instead of the silent Alert such as sitting or downing on an article or item.