in the dictionary deterrent is "anything that deters"

in the dictionary deter is "to hinder or prevent"

in the dictionary habit is "ordinary course of behaviour"

so, from a past post (teething) this issue was kind of touched on, but I am left wondering is it a "bandaid" or can deterrents form good habits,

the example was using a deterrent to keep a puppy from chewing on it's lead

 Quote: Dave Owen

can deterrents form good habits,

What a unique observations. I really like your thought process here. And I would be of the thought that yes, deterrents can form good habits.

Using “socialization” as an example.

I always prevent/hinder my dogs from playing with, getting all kissy face with every Tom, Dick and Rover they meet. They’re taught to focus on me the presence of others and I’ll let them know if this is a desirable social occasion or not.

This deterrent stops my dogs from indiscriminately reacting to every person/dog we encounter. Dialing back their reactivity ( deterring from the beginning)decreases the chances of unwanted behavior in other dogs and the chances of my dogs indiscriminately going up to humans that may not appreciate the unsolicited advances.

Deterring (preventing/hindering)a habit (ordinary course of behavior) of indiscriminate meetings forms a social dog that I can take anywhere. I know they will be a polite addition to any circumstance we encounter because they’ve formed good habits from the initial deterrent in the first place.

Geeze I hope that makes sense.

Again, love your correlation there and I would definitely vote for a “Yes” to your question.

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Detering or simply preventing a dog from doing something can absolutely stop certain behaviors. Especially if you have a puppy.

Its not going to work for big stuff, there are things that are just not going to be solved without obedience training and/or counter conditioning, but for some things it works great.

Digging and rock eating were two things my current dog did as a puppy that were solved this way. She is a natural, enthusiastic digger. When she was little if she started a hole you couldn't pull her away from it!

Just keeping her on leash and not letting it happen in the first place she eventualy quit doing it for good. Now she knows that the only place she is allowed to dig is the beach.

If I left her out in a yard all day I would expect to find holes when I come home, but I can stop her from doing it with a look if she is supervised.

I agree; I think that deterrents can help for good habits, or perhaps in keeping the dog from forming bad habits.

An example for my dog would be trash picking. When she was a pup she was always into the trash can that was in our kitchen. I finally got smart and bought a can with a lid that flips up.

This was a deterrent to her as a pup (she wasn't the kind of pup that would knock the can over), and now she never even gives the can a sniff. She may have outgrown her dumpster diving tendencies, but I think that if I had not provided a deterrent she would have got into the habit of trash picking whenever we weren't there.

Deterrents work well with self-rewarding behaviors, IMO.

You have to look at this through the "in the moment" eyes of a dog.

If the puppy isn't chewing on the leash, it isn't chewing on the leash.

If the puppy is chasing a ball, eating a meal, smelling a turd, or chewing on a kong, it isn't all the while longing to chew on the leash.

so what I'm getting from you Michael, is to redirect?

Faisal, I'm really wanting to build a good foundation, and can't get the term Bandaid out of my thoughts.

Here's my experience and what works for mine. I've found that it's much easier to teach a dog to DO something than to teach it to NOT DO something. (There are so many things in the world you don't want the dog to do, you couldn't possibly train them all anyway.)

Therefore, when the dog is doing something you don't want him to do--simply ask him to do something else.

A reliable "come" or "sit" or "touch" can overcome (i.e. redirect) a lot of bad behaviors.

Dog fooling with something he's not supposed to, barking at a squirrel on the other side of the screen door--ask him to come. Problem solved.

Dog jumping, underfoot, nudging for attention, bothering the cat---ask him to sit. Problem solved.

By consistently rewarding "sit" as the default behavior (if you can't think of anything else to do, then just sit down) dogs can learn a kind of self-control. It gives them something TO DO, rather than remember what NOT to do. Which is ultimately what I'm after with a companion dog. I want them to understand that in the absence of any other command at this moment, they are probably better off near me and sitting down.

 Quote: Tracy Collins

It gives them something TO DO, rather than remember what NOT to do.

ok I,m thinking I have a bit of work ahead

Its the same thing as a kid not having anything to do after school.

There is always that possiblilty that they will get into the wrong crowd, and pick up some bad habits that will haunt them for years to come. Mine was smoking.

Or, if you know the kids interest, and give them something in that interest to participate in, they will probably stay out of trouble. I went home and smoked, other kids went to basketball practice.:smile:

Then I spent the next 15+ years trying to quit. Wish I would have played basketball.

Now, is basketball a bandaid?:wink: A bandaid would have been letting me continue on doing nothing after school and instead searching my room for cigarettes every now and then.

Make sense? Or am I really talking out of my ***?

Thats a little more complicated than with a dog. When they aren't actively performing the bad habit, they probably aren't thinking about it, either, like I said above.