Folks,

Would you please share the benefit of your advice because I've got a situation here...

My 19 mo. old male GSD (West German working bloodlines) is becoming increasingly "edgy" as he matures and I have a growing problem on my hands that I need to address before it goes too far. (I will make my point in 1000 words or less. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> )

He is, fundamentally, not a confident dog. When I brought him to my SchH club at about 11 mo. of age to be evaluated for SchH potential, he didn't show well. He would would work in prey with me waving the tug, but when the helper tried to get him to play, he would drop the tug and his drives shut down. When the helper put a little pressure on him, he quickly went into avoidance.
OK, so SchH is not his forte. That was the end of that. He went back home and lives as our companion. I have been training with our female GSD in SchH, and not him.

At 19 mo. of age I brought him back to the club for another look. His behavior that day was completely different, and disturbing. While the other dogs were working on the field in obedience, he got all worked up when they got close to the car, barking very aggressively. Not a "I-want-to-play" bark, but a "get-away-from-me-and-my-car" bark.

When it came his turn, we tied him out on a stake and when the helper came out he started barking hard, all in defense. The helper was working all in prey, but Hercules would focus on the tug for about two seconds before turning back to the man. His drives were 90% defense and 10% prey, a bad combination for SchH. He showed his insecurity when the helper got close. He would back up on his lead, sometimes slipping around the stake as if looking for a way to get out. Then he returned to his defensive barking in an attempt to drive away the man. He was reaking insecurity.
OK, so no SchH for him. He will not set foot on the field again.

Unfortunately, his aggressive insecurity carries over in his everyday behavior. Yesterday I was walking him when I met a new neighbor on the street. We just moved into this subdivision a month ago and I'm looking to meet the residents so I stopped to chat. Hercules was obviously tenative. He stayed back, way back, at the end of his 15 foot flexilead for a minute or two. Eventually as I chatted he came close to me, but never in front. Can we say "insecurity" boys and girls? Finally the lady asked if she could pet my dog and she stretched out her hand for Hercules to sniff from about 3 ft away. Hercules recoiled a foot or two and gave a nasty bark or two. All defense. All insecurity. Not good.

So, not only will he never work in SchH, but now I need to work with him to get along with friendly, neutral strangers. He needs an attitude adjustment and there's little room for error. He's a big boy and he needs to learn that aggressive behavior towards a neutral stranger (with no direct eye contact, relaxed stance) is not acceptable.

Any sage advice would be most appreciated.

Yvette

Yvette,

Well, I'm certainly not re-inventing the wheel when I say that this dog is a result of bad genetics and has horrible nerves. Obedience training with a prong collar. The dog needs to fear the correction more than the heebie jeebies in his head. Be a strong confident leader. Shy dogs with weak nerves often times do very well with obedience because they take comfort in following their "pack leader's" lead. Keep socializing the dog. If you are worried about a possible bite then muzzle the dog in public. Again, I'm not revealing anything revolutionary here. I suggest reading Ed's articles on shy dogs and fear biters. You will never change what this dog is made of.....you can only control it.

I think he could still turn out fine. Does he like to fetch the ball? If so to take the edge off when you meet strangers make him associate it with fun and relaxation(mentally) with the fetch be vigilant with him to make sure he doesn't get the nerve to charge and bite the stranger. Combine that with obedience like sit stay and down stay and he will get over his apprehension. I think sometimes dogs with his personality get confused about what their job is. You can try the "friend - food" method as well make him fast for 24 hours and give a treat to stranger and tell him friend make stranger drop treat, then evolve to food from hand.Also take him around a large crowd of people like in a city and walk and walk and I bet you will see a more confident and secure dog.

George

I agree with George on this one. You are never going to improve fear with fear of a correction. We rescued a Giant bitch puppy with this same problem. The way I cured this is by going to places where there were people. Stand and talk with people with the dog on a sit. I started with neighbors so there was an obvious good relationship with the perso/people. Ignore any fearful actions by the dog. Just make sure he sits while you talk with people. Praise any intrest in the strangers. Once the dog looks more comforable in the situation praise lavishly. If the acts interested enough to go up to the people let him go to them, don't have the people approach the dog. It took a little while but over time she became more interested in why I was accepting these people and started to approach the strangers. Now she is fairly friendly with most people.

The key to this is that the stranger needs to be neutral or a positive position on the dog. As the dog seems less afraid then you can have the strangers pet or treat the dog. The dog will key off your attitude towards the stranger, if you seem interested he will get interested. Don't correct for anything but an error with the obedience. Once he is better with people you know you, can move to complete strangers in a place like Petsmart/Petco or go sit outside a grocery store. Any place where there are a lot of people around.

Is there a differnece between this dog and a dog that excepts strangers but will not let them pet her.The dog will just step back or duck under the hand.Has no fear of people just doesn't like to be touched by strangers.
If I put her in a sit stay to let someone pet her, she looks at me like why are you torturing me.

Milt

Milt, I've never heard of a dog having an aversion to touch just because they didn't like the sensation of it. If it's only with strangers, then I would believe that there has to be some fear factor involved. It could be due to the posture of the person and vibes the dog is detecting from them. A stranger towering over a dog, then raising their hand over their head would definitely cause the type of reaction you described. Have the stranger crouch down to the level of the dog, and bring their hand under the chin or chest. They should also be standing off to the side and not directly in front of the dog. Unless the stranger is visibly anxious, you should get a more accepting response from the dog.

Beth, will you have a talk with my wife.LOLI disagree some dogs are more aloof then others doesn't mean its fear.Chows for example are more aloof then goldens.

Milt, I'm not touching your first comment! (no pun intended...)

As for aloofness, I see this as a dog accepting of petting or interaction with a stranger, but not reacting to the stimulation in either a positive or negative way...basically as you described in the sit-stay scenario. But if the dog is backing away or ducking, then they must have some cause for doing so. Whether a threat is really present or not, the dog at least is sensing there is one.

Hey Richard, George- when you say the dog could still turn out ok, do you guys mean Shutzhund? Cuz' I don't think so. . . .

Milt, I think Beth is right. There is a big difference between aloofness and fear, and ducking away from people is fear. An aloof dog will accept the attention, just doesn't seek it out.

Yvette, I agree with George and Richard. Have folks behave neutrally toward the dog, then begin the friend=food routine. Walking around busy areas such as grocery store parking lots, etc., while working on leash obed. should help.

When correcting a dog for a fearful response, it's too easy for the dog to associate the correction with the stranger, not with their own behavior. That will just reinforce the anxiety around those situations. Friend=food relieves the anxiety and allows the dog to look forward to meeting new people, rather than being concerned about getting a harsh correction.