Dave Owen wrote 05/05/2011 11:48 PM toy as marker reward #331549 - 05/05/2011 11:48 PM
Dave Owen Webboard User Reg: 03-17-2011 Posts: 381 Loc: Alberta Canada Offline	so, I need to clarify that using a toy or rag with a toy motivated puppy is ok. we do not have a great out, getting there but still some work to go, how I use the rag or toy is to give Pisa a couple of near misses with some chasing, she will focus so hard on the toy during a sit that she quivers, but will hold it untill I mark...YES... then the rag/toy comes down just like a treat,
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Tabatha Farnel wrote 05/05/2011 11:56 PM Re: toy as marker reward [Re: Dave Owen ] #331550 - 05/05/2011 11:56 PM
Tabatha Farnel Webboard User Reg: 05-04-2008 Posts: 243 Loc: Ontario Offline	Do you have the Michael Ellis DVD on training with toys? It really is great. http://leerburg.com/221.htm I've been doing the same thing with my pup. Marker, then either treat or tug as a reward.
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Dave Owen wrote 05/06/2011 12:00 AM Re: toy as marker reward [Re: Tabatha Farnel ] #331551 - 05/06/2011 12:00 AM
Dave Owen Webboard User Reg: 03-17-2011 Posts: 381 Loc: Alberta Canada Offline	I do, but am wondering if only giving near misses is ok, I am pretty confident the chase is good enough for her, she will sit or touch(only two named behaviours) after a near miss
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Tabatha Farnel wrote 05/06/2011 12:06 AM Re: toy as marker reward [Re: Dave Owen ] #331552 - 05/06/2011 12:06 AM
Tabatha Farnel Webboard User Reg: 05-04-2008 Posts: 243 Loc: Ontario Offline	Hmmm, if you mark a behaviour, I would reward with a bite. The near misses are okay when just playing tug, but I think she should get a tangible reward after a mark, especially as a pup just learning the behaviours. I'm interested in hearing others' thoughts though, this is my first pup that I'm seriously training, so I'm a noob as well.
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Cindy Shepard wrote 05/06/2011 09:58 AM Re: toy as marker reward [Re: Tabatha Farnel ] #331587 - 05/06/2011 09:58 AM
Cindy Shepard Webboard User Reg: 07-14-2010 Posts: 218 Loc: BC Canada Offline	What would be the purpose of only giving near misses and no bites? I think that would build incredible frustration in the dog and/or it would start losing interest in the game . . .
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Faisal Khan wrote 05/06/2011 09:48 PM Re: toy as marker reward [Re: Cindy Shepard ] #331690 - 05/06/2011 09:48 PM
Faisal Khan Webboard User Reg: 01-15-2011 Posts: 142 Loc: Texas Offline	Quote: Cindy Shepard What would be the purpose of only giving near misses and no bites? I think that would build incredible frustration in the dog and/or it would start losing interest in the game . . . With the right dog it is the opposite, you build drive this way. But as Michael-E mentions there are certain pre-requisites for using a toy as reward.
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Dave Owen wrote 05/06/2011 10:51 PM Re: toy as marker reward [Re: Faisal Khan ] #331698 - 05/06/2011 10:51 PM
Dave Owen Webboard User Reg: 03-17-2011 Posts: 381 Loc: Alberta Canada Offline
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Cindy Shepard wrote 05/07/2011 09:36 AM Re: toy as marker reward [Re: Dave Owen ] #331726 - 05/07/2011 09:36 AM
Cindy Shepard Webboard User Reg: 07-14-2010 Posts: 218 Loc: BC Canada Offline	I have the video - as I recall M.E. says to use near misses to build drive, but he certainly does not advocate ALL near misses and not allowing the dog to ever get the tug! He sprinkles the near misses throughout the workout. I don't see why you would not do that with your dog . . . You might be getting awesome engagement with it now, but I can't believe it will hold up over time.
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Kelly Byrd wrote 05/07/2011 09:45 AM Re: toy as marker reward [Re: Cindy Shepard ] #331728 - 05/07/2011 09:45 AM
Kelly Byrd Webboard User Reg: 07-28-2010 Posts: 2249 Loc: Tacoma, WA Offline	BUT- the pup is not this young in the video. Remember, Pisa is just a puppy.
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Dave Owen wrote 05/07/2011 09:47 AM Re: toy as marker reward [Re: Cindy Shepard ] #331730 - 05/07/2011 09:47 AM
Dave Owen Webboard User Reg: 03-17-2011 Posts: 381 Loc: Alberta Canada Offline	Quote: Cindy Shepard He sprinkles the near misses throughout the workout. I don't see why you would not do that with your dog . . . she gets alot of tugging in, I do not want her to lose interest, just the days she practically refuses food that is what works, kind of based on my dog though, I sprinkle the tugs to be sure she know she will get it
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