I can't seem to figure out how to get a sit or down in motion from a recall.

From a heel it is getting into a nice shape but can't get any thing going from a recall. I can get position change from a good distance (dog at stand still).

I have try to recall, say "down" when the dog gets close, lure down, I back a few steps and mark and then reward.

The dog still think that he has to come back to me first then down or sit. He will auto sit on recall 100%.

What can I do to solve this problem?

Thanks

Why do you want a sit/ down on a recall? Is there some specific reason that you want to do this? Do your dogs do a send out & a down on a send out?

Usually you would want your dog recalling to you as fast as possible. I would NOT want them thinking about slowing down or stopping when returning to me. Just not what I would do. On the send out it's fine & I do teach my dogs a send out & a down on a send out. My dogs will do it (down on a recall)..but it is NOT something that I really would teach. Maybe just toss it in to ask them onece in a very blue moon, as I want that recall fast.

I would like that for unusual life. Few days ago I recall him but never saw one out of control rider flying in the dog path. He nearly got runed over. I said down but he down at my feet.

Some emergency break that would be what I need.

The first down in motion concept, I taught my dogs, was as a sit & down in motion from a heeling walk then a heeling run.(I started out doing SchH with my dogs) I then trained the send out. (also for SchH)

I never TAUGHT the sit or down from a recall. I taught my dogs a send out & then a sit & down on the send out. Then converted it to a recall. But as I stated I did it very very occasionally for the reasons I stated above. By the time they had gotten used to doing the fast down on a fast send out they had the concept of stopping fast & dropping out of a run. So then it was just basically an OB command to use it on a recall.

Someone else here may have taught it diectly from a recall. But I think that if you do it that way you are going to 'muddy' your recall & loose ALOT of speed & focus on it. JMO

 Quote: Ariane Gauthier

I would like that for unusual life. Few days ago I recall him but never saw one out of control rider flying in the dog path. He nearly got runed over. I said down but he down at my feet.

Some emergency break that would be what I need.

The Drop on Recall is a formal exercise required in the AKC Open obedience class. The theory behind teaching a dog to drop to a down in the midst of a recall is for just the type of situation Ariane mentions. You have called your dog to you from a distance, and after he begins to come to you, you notice the potential danger (horse, car, rattlesnake, etc.).

Having said that, I certainly understand that it is a personal preference whether to teach your dog such a command.

Ariane, have you started by teaching him to down (or sit if that is what you want) when he is stationary but at a distance from you? That is where I would start. If he is wanting to come toward you rather than obeying your down command, try putting a barrier in front of him, like a jump pole on the ground, not to actually block him but just to give him a visual point of reference. Start fairly close to him, then increase your distance. Once he's consistent in obeying your down or sit commands from a distance, you can move him back a ways from the barrier, give him the recall command, then the down command just as he's approaching the barrier. As time goes on, you would phase the barrier out.

eta: Anne and I were typing at the same time. Yes, I can certainly understand that for some dogs, it's possible for there to be confusion. But I've observed many, many dogs at my training club and at trials who, at the more advanced levels, have no problem with doing speedy, straight recalls and then turning around and doing the drop on recall. I'm sure it takes a heck of a lot of work and practice, though

Edited by Cheri Grissom (05/16/2011 01:47 PM)
Edit reason: eta

I taught it by teaching the distance commands first. In a stand/sit as I walked away. Turn around and ask them to down. A few repetitions with a solid down command (must reiterate “solid”, proofed with many distractions) then asked for it as he was moving slowly towards me (short distance) and started extending the distance.

I initially rewarded with a ball toss from the distance but found out this was the wrong way. I received information that I should walk back to him and reward him in the “downed” position.

I would also like to caution and wholeheartedly agree with what Anne has said though. I ran into some major problems with a sluggish, loping recall. I would rather have the speed coming in than what this command produced (for me). Haven’t continued the command because I got my recall speed back and want to keep it.

IME too, train it on the send out but not the recall.

For putting on the brakes, simply proofing your “down from a distance” would probably get the results you’re looking for. I wouldn’t be “recalling” if I wanted him to drop on the spot in an emergency type situation.

Again, this is just my experience and there probably are proper ways to train it without muddying the waters, but not worth jeopardizing the recall IMHO.

I don't do AKC....did some low level competition as a junior with my collie eons ago. But nothing recently.

I do agree that if you have a dog that is advanced in training & solid on their training...you could have them do downs on recalls. I do it VERY occasionally & my dogs have no problem with keeping their recall speed....but still think that for most people that don't have very solid under any distraction kind of OB on their dog, are going to run into big trouble doing this.

Oops, sorry, I see you said in your first post that you can get position changes from a distance when the dog is stationary. I think I misread that as "can't." I would continue to work on that but perhaps incorporate the barrier I mentioned to see if that helps.

Are you using a voice command or a hand signal or both? Some dogs are much more responsive to visual cues than voice cues, and if it's not for competition, there's nothing wrong with using both. (In AKC, you can use a hand signal or voice command but not both.)

BTW, when you get to the Utility class in AKC, which is the next one up from Open, there is a send-away which is part of the Directed Jumping excercise, where you send your dog out to a designated spot where he ideally stops, turns around and sits facing you, then waits for your signal to jump one of two jumps and return to you.

Ingred had posted Frost's utility title vid the other day. I remember seeing what you are talking about.

I trained SchH not AKC. So I am not familier with their classes.

This is really common (thinking down means come to me first, then down) and a normal part of most dogs learning curve.

To get over it I do a couple of things.

1) when we are outside in the yard and the dog is just wandering around, I will give them a down command. I like them to be at least 15 feet away, and at a walk, when I do this. That way if they do try to come towards me I have time to say "no, down". Usually they stop and in a slightly confused manner will lay down. At which point I immediately produce a reward (toy) and throw it for them. If they don't stop I just take them back to where I initially told them to down, tell them down, and then give a minor reward like a "good boy" and release them. The toy only comes if they do stop and down away from me, at first even if I have to do the "no down" they get the toy, later I up the requirements to being on the first command, and then we work on speed.

2) If your dog knows a "place" command, I will make a triangle between myself, the dog and the place. Then send the dog to place and down them. Many dogs know going from handler to place, or place to handler, but not from somewhere away from handler to place and a position. You can also put your place half way between yourself and the dog, and then send them to place (don't recall, tell them place) and down them.

These two exercises help the dog to understand the concept of "down means right where you are" vs "down means come to me then lay down" and make the down on recall clearer.