Hello. I was hoping to receive some input/thoughts re: protection aspect of Schutzhund with a less than confident dog. We acquired an adult male, Rott about a year ago. I have been working with him over the year but not in any formal or structured setting. We are now exploring options of activities to participate in.

A comment (not on the board) was made that if you teach a non-confident dog to bite there is a huge potential that the dog will do this in situations of uncertainty, you've basically given him a defensive tool. I spoke to the trainer/helper who has not yet meet this dog and the opinion is that confidence can be worked with if done correctly, and after meeting the dog we could always just omit the bite work as we are not participating with intention to title.

Geez this was harder to put into question format that I thought. Part of my brain understands the 'teaching' to bite statement but a lot of me believes that even with a non-confident dog had the groundwork and subsequent training been done properly you are not teaching bite as a first line reaction. Most dogs are aware they have a mouth for biting. Anyways, before I proceed I'm curious as to what other opinions may be. Appreciate your time and input, Aimee.

Depends.

Depending on exactly what the confidence issues are some aspects of the training IF DONE PROPERLY WITH YOUR DOGS PERSONALITY foremost in mind could increase confidence.

Lack of confidence can mean so many things, it is really hard to address the question. Personally I would not do bite training with a dog not well suited for it. It's not fair to the dog at all and can really hurt the dog.

Bite work is only one out 3 parts of schutzhund and you can actually title just in ob and tracking. Training in both will increase the dogs confidence!

If you have a club that is willing to take a dog and possibly not work protection with him I would give it a try. In the meantime you can see the dogs that do do protection and get a better handle on your dogs strengths and weaknesses.

Betty thank you for replying to the post and then some. Not only did you clarify but helped me to regain focus of what my initial question was that iniated the 'teaching to bite' statement, what activity would he and I most enjoy together. Thank you

 Quote: Betty Waldron

Training in both will increase the dogs confidence!

I cannot speak about Schutzhund (no experience), but I have found agility to be an excellent way to boost confidence in a dog. It's teamwork, but also requires a certain amount of independence and independent thinking on the part of the dog. Just something to think about...

Finding the "right" trainer if you not doing bite work is critical. Many Schutzhund clubs still work on defense to early and with this dog you may not want ANY defense. All prey training.
Some trainers don't really understand the difference themselves.
Will recently commented about there only being 5-6 good PPD trainers in this country. Schutzhund isn't near the same but there are still a ton of clubs that don't get it.
"Correct" Schutzhund training is as much about teaching the dog when NOT to bite.
I personally don't like to see a dog in bite training if it isn't very confident and also very clear headed.
As others have mentioned, agility, obedience, etc.
I would also suggest a trainer that is high on marker training. Heavy obedience on a less then confident dog will only stress the dog more.

I've also found that tracking helps confidence. Like Agility the dog has to think/problem solve independently and when that is done properly you can really see a dog blossom.

ETA: Good point on the heavy handed ob Bob.

Thank you all for input and explanations. I do remember reading a post Will made re: PPD expertise and understand the reference. I worked with this Schutzhund trainer previously and am comfortable with his methods, a lot of time was spent working on me working the dog and very marker oriented.

After reading this and some thinking I set up 1-1 sessions for the next month or two with the trainer and just explore. There is agility equipment stored there that we can also use. He loves to leap into the water and retrieve, maybe dock diving.

Thank you all I do appreciate the time spent explaining different aspects to consider.

 Quote: Bob Scott

...with this dog you may not want ANY defense. All prey training.

The above was very insightful for me. While looking for more info on this site I ran into a helpful article if anyone is interested http://leerburg.com/def-frst.htm

 Quote: betty waldron

I've also found that tracking helps confidence. Like Agility the dog has to think/problem solve independently and when that is done properly you can really see a dog blossom.

ETA: Good point on the heavy handed ob Bob.

That also matches what Cesar Milan always says about having dogs use their nose - helps them satisfy the "dog" in them and can contribute to a more balanced dog - of course it also gives the dog a meaningful job in the partnership.

when selecting a a new dog for services or sport. I try to find the best possible dog, I don't even consider a dog with issues . I have helped quite a few people with problem dogs. a good foundation in obedience will go a long way in overcoming issues.