I am looking for some advice and perhaps some experiences that others may have had with trying to train a large low drive G.S.
I am new to Schutzhund, I have been training for the last 3 years and it has been a very long process..My G.S. is 3 years old, he has Schutzhund all through his lines but he is from German Show lines. He weighs 100 pounds and isn't fat..I have been working with private training and Schutzhund clubs, we have gotten our BH, and his protection work is great and his tracking is good, but O.B. he is very slow, not food motivated and will work for a toy but after about 5 min. he is ready for a nap..
I guess I am at the point, do I keep trying or give up and just work on tracking? It's hard when your club members have high drive dogs that are easy to engage and have tremendous energy..
Any thoughts would be appreciated..

Oh Lisa, I think I am your postergirl.
I am impressed at all the work you have done with your dog. When I got my puppy (at 3.5 months no less) I had to teach him how to play. He also is a W. German show line dog. I really worked on food and toy drive with him to get better obedience/learning.
He's not food motivated, but at least I am able to manipulate his food and my treats to get him super motivated. (I have allergies to deal with too). So, if he can only eat lamb and rice, I will cook up a lamb steak on the grill with a little seasoning, and it will drive him NUTS. If it doesn't, I'll cut out his food for half a day or a day, and then, trust me he'll want that lamb steak.

I had to work a little to increase his drive for the toys and I suggest Building Drive DVD from here, it will give you ideas. I used some of them and now my dog has insane drive for the toys I have worked. I wouldn't suggest sneaking the toy from the dog, as an aside, but that's a personal decision.

The last thing I want to say is don't give up on engagement. I think that gave me the easiest window into my dog's excitement.

I understand the frustration, but I kind of wish I had your problem. Even my sweet, compliant pit bull is hell on wheels whenever she gets a wild hair up her butt (at least three times a day).

I also second going out of your way to make treats interesting. Grilling a steak is a great idea, and so is fasting the dog to really get him happy to be feeding on awesome stuff.

You got a couch tater to a BH and got him on the sleeve, EXCELLENT! now go get him a girlfriend from Psycho Killer DDR/Czech lines and enjoy

Claudette I think our dogs are related! Thanks for your advice, I have fasted my dog 1 day but not 2.. I have tried sardines, cooked liver with garlic salt, cheese, hot dogs, left over chicken and steak.. He will track for all of those, but OB.. not worth it to him.. I am going to hold off food for 2 days and see what happens.. He may be weak from hunger and really slow down! LOL!!
Samantha, I can see that having a mellow dog might be a dream if you have a wild one..but I can't relate ): I am thinking of using a couch to teach the voraus.. put it at one end of the field, and he will run to it and lay down..
Dennis I am on the same page... I want to get a good Czech working bitch.. But I really want to go as far as I can with my boy.. The question is: How far will that be? Thanks for all of the encouragement! You guys are great!

Get a second dog and his drive might increase. A bit of competition can do wonders for some dogs! "Hey wait - you're taking her outside, but I want to do something!!!"

It's also fun working with two different dogs - teaches you lots more than just one dog.

My boy Kaiser is a slow poke. He can stay engaged with me for 5 minutes max with out compulsion, after that he wants out. I train him just for 2 - 5 minutes at a time, rapid fire and put him away. I get him to do stuff when he knows he is going to go out for a walk, when he is all excited. Your dog HAS to be excited about some thing, a ball, going for a walk, coming inside your room, jumping into the car for a ride. You know when his eyes light up and his ears perk up. I have even asked kaiser to down in drive before allowing him to go to the fence and bark at strange dogs. Not the best behaviour, but I saw him in drive and wanted to use it.. Train the downs/sits/stands when he is in that state of mind and never otherwise for a month. If you can't find that state of mind, don't train obedience.

You can with hold food from him and see if that increases his drive. You can give him some HEPAZYME tonic (supposed to increase hunger) and see if that helps.

Forget your club's training schedule and your club dogs, stick to your dog's schedule and train him ONLY when he is in the right state of mind. If he is not, just take him out and play and enjoy his presence.

Remember, those other high drive dogs don't love you , only your lazy dog loves you.


Also check his blood hemoglobin levels if he is lethargic all around. But if he is lethargic during just obedience then stop obedience and just take him out and play for a week or two.

Thank you Ramachandran! It really helps to hear from others that have lazy dogs.. I don't think people who have the higher drive dogs have a clue as to how hard and frustrating it is to train a dog that tires out so quickly and gets bored unless you are in constant motion..Even then they walk away and lay down under a shady tree.. I will take your advice, and work with him when he is excited for a walk.. He also gets hyper when I open the back of the car.. I may also get some blood work to rule out any physical problems.. I am glad I posted this because it is encouraging to know there are others out there that keep going in the sport and don't give up on their dogs, they just train differently..Nobody said this was easy...But what a joy when your dog gets it!

Lisa, I agree with ruling out the physical as well. Thyroid problems are another potential source of low energy. If you get the full blood panel, your Vet should be able to address any possible physical cause.

 Quote: Ramachandran Subramanian

Remember, those other high drive dogs don't love you , only your lazy dog loves you.

Ranm: I don't believe this is true at all!! I can bet that others here with high drive dogs don't either!!!
If you want to get into anthropomorphism.

Lisa/ Samantha: Dogs can only reach the drive that they are genetically born with. You CAN'T make a low drive dog a high drive dog. You might be able to increase what you see to what is genetically there...but you are not going to make a drive 2 dog a drive 8 dog! You MIGHT be able to make it up to a 3 or even maybe a 4. But it will NEVER be an 8. Just is not going to happen.

The showline SHOW dogs often do some SchH as part of their show life. But it is a MUCH lower level of SchH than you will see at the higher club level, Nationals or International levels. Just not the same quality of work. The dogs are bred primarily to look pretty not work. Working line breeders are breeding for drive to work not looks. The dogs genetically are different in many ways.....different from their coloring, to their structure, to their drives.