Quote: diana dennis

My club train director and I have been working 3x a week to desensitize her to dogs. She whines but no longer snarls or attacks dogs through kennels. If I have food, she ignores other dogs even when close. However, she is not at the point where she can run loose and play socially with other dogs...

Any tips on how to get her socializing with other dogs under more "playful" circumstances? When do you think it would be time to try? If a dog even snarls at her, she kicks into high gear.

My dog kicks into high gear when a dog looks at her crossed- eyes, and she's not a wl GSD.
Nice looking dogs in your link, btw...
So, what's the problem? Why does she need to socialize with other dogs?

Please no snarky remarks. I need honest goodness help with this and don't have time for those remarks like I have received in the past. Understand that I am still relatively knew to the sport and to these dogs. I would buy Leerburg's DVD but her only problem is aggression to dogs...not anything else.

Good question...why does she need to socialize (by the way, you posted as I was posting about snarky remarks...not directed to you. lol)? She will be on military posts for the rest of her life and my brother doesn't need the stress of trying to control her. He can't even take her out for a walk. Zelda (my older sable) will tolerate dogs unless they give her the stink eye...lol. However Mieke (the b and t in the link) will lunge at any dog. He wants to be able to take her places with his family and not worry about how she will act if a dog runs loose around them. He wants to be able to trust her at a dog park...etc. He is only using her a personal protection but wants to social able like my PP dog (Raya, sable in the foreground on my embedded pic).

 Quote: Diana Dennis

She will be on military posts for the rest of her life and my brother doesn't need the stress of trying to control her. He can't even take her out for a walk.

I second beautiful dogs!

I believe your desires are noble, however; it will be your brother who needs to do the majority of the work for him to achieve his goals. I think ignoring dogs is a more realistic goal than playing with dogs. In the meantime if you can continue to expose her and desensitize her that will help your brother but he will need to continue that work and devise a system where he removes her from situations that may prove to be overwhelming.

I personally would steer clear of the dog parks with her but I think walking the base, going camping etc are all doable. Why the necessity for dog park visits? Not snarky just curious if I missed something.

Not all dogs like to play together; I'd respect that but agree appropriate behavior should be expected. Oh and I'm sure working dog owner's can chime in with ways to assist you in getting there.

Thanks on the beautiful dogs

Dog Parks:
I personally don't like them. Other people bring their dogs their that aren't necessarily trained, dog, or people friendly. I am NOT a fan. This is my brother's wish. He has family he visits and visits him with dogs and would like her to be able to socialize with these dogs. Therefore, he wants to regularly take her to these dog parks to keep it up.

OB:
Impeccable in terms of basic obedience. Sit and down (both long >10min) under distraction, recall under distraction, leave it (almost even with dogs), etc. She can do a BH in her sleep. However, her hip was shattered as a puppy getting out of a car and can no longer compete in Schutzhund.

Desensitizing:
The club train director owns a kennel. We are taking her through he PRIVATE part of the kennel (where he keeps his dogs and his partner's show labs) on a regular basis and sternly saying No and Leave it as she begin to show aggression towards the dogs. I then also do this at home with my dogs in their kennels. She is also crated right next to my dogs. In the beginning a divider between her crate and the other 2 was needed but now she does fine without it. She is very good with calm dogs in the kennels but when she sees ones running, jumping, and barking at her...she acts up.

I know I can get her to the point of my oldest Zelda, who is tolerant of dogs in public but doesn't play well unless it's with my younger dog, Raya. I just don't think it's a realistic goal to get her dog friendly. I have been reading many of Leerburg's E-books on dominance and aggression while waiting for responses and will start checking forums too now.

p.s. No snarky remarks yet I'm referring to ones bashing me.

Thank you guys so far for the advice!!! I very much appreciate it.

Diana, here's a solution! You keep the dog (since you are obviously more suited to own her, and more realistic about goals with a dog-reactive working dog) and you brother can get a dog more suited to family life and socializing with other dogs.

Diana, I applaud you for your good intentions, but I really don't think this dog is going to fit in with your brother's idea of an ideal dog.

Many dogs with dog aggression can be trained/managed so they tolerate other dogs, but expecting her to happily interact/be unflapable around random dogs is really, really stretching it.

I think you really need to have a good talk with your brother so he understands what he can reasonably expect from this dog, then work within those parameters. IE, Great OB under the distraction of random dogs, the ability to chill out in a crate with other dogs in the vicinity, etc - NOT going to the dog park and interacting with other dogs. It's not fair to the dog to expect her to be highly social with everything and everyone when it's just not in her nature.

If your brother wants that unflapable family dog it sounds like a well bred lab would fit much better into the "take anywhere fine with everyting" idea.

 Quote:

Many dogs with dog aggression can be trained/managed so they tolerate other dogs, but expecting her to happily interact/be unflapable around random dogs is really, really stretching it.

Couldn't agree more. Sometimes a dog is what it is and you can just work with what you got.

I'm really glad to see some solid advice here. I've been handling pit bulls for years, many of them highly dog reactive, but many of them are capable of learning self control to the point of being safe in public.

What your brother needs to do is figure out if its TRUE dog agression or not. It may be reactivity to certain stressors, or a fear response. Many dogs who are fearful don't cower, scream, and try to run away. They start to panic and go into a 'get you before you get me' mind frame.

Your brother also needs to know that even the most bomb-proof dog will react to other dogs charging at them. It his HIS job to protect HIS dog.