Patrick Hennigan Webboard User Reg: 09-01-2001
Posts: 308
Loc: Boston, MA
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This could be a fear stage he is going through...if this is true it will only last about a week.
The bottom line is this is a show line dog(I looked at the site). Genetically he is not capable of doing serious protection work.
Also I would ask, why is Zanto(sire) only titled to SchH2?....maybe he is young, maybe an issue, I dont know.
Also what they say about Zanto; "Zanto is Goergen Haus' primary Stud Dog. Zanto compliments our breedings with his exceptional looks, proper conformation and manageable, balanced drive. He exemplifies what we've found the typical German Shepherd owner is requiring for family Work/Show/Pet environments." ...I dont like this statement.
You are using an e-collar on a seven month old pup-what the h--- is wrong with you? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
CLPIE, I can understand your hostility, but I think many people have a very misinformed idea about electric shock. Unless it's used on a high level it's not always 100% cruel.
I've never used one, but most of the stimulations set on it are no more severe than an irritating feeling on your skin, like a tattoo, etc. It's not a form of torture.
I've been zapped while working with electricity and it's not always what one would expect.
If one was using a prong collar they could just as easy expose a dog to abuse with it like the E-Collar. I've heard from experts that it's all on the stimulation, and how you use it. Many people can cause and do cause more pain while grabbing the back of the neck of their dog than a small electrical charge.
I'm just simply stating the the effects of electrical shock aren't always as extreme as they're perceived, IMO.
DavidStevenson Webboard User Reg: 12-01-2001
Posts: 116
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The diet is for sure not the problem. Hard for me to believe that a 7 month old dog has a high pain tolerance and doesn't respond to a pinch collar. Something is wrong (very wrong) with the handler, I think. Hands off the e-collar and try to learn more about dog training before you think about to use an e-collar. It is not a substitute for ignorance.
I agree, I also don't think the E-collar is something to be used if you do not use it properly. I just don't think it's as much a torture device as many times as they're rumored.
You cannot make apples into oranges, genetics plays the biggest role in a dog's performance I feel.
This is why many members of the board, myself included are so big on working lines only.
This could be a fear period.. fear periods can last longer than a week. I would find a trainer in your area that is knowledgeable about personal protection.. It could be that you are using your collar incorrectly and making him a basket case.. So I would get rid of the ecollar for now.. spend some time on the home front building a relationship with him.. use some food and toys.. try a pinch collar again..make sure you fit it snug.. up high behind his ears.. Give him some time to settle.. then take him out again. His father's bloodlines have produced some very nice working dogs... time will tell if he will be one of them.
Thanks for the advice. As far as the ecollar. This puppy is in a house with small children and would not stop biting. As I said I tried a pincher collar and I am sure it fits properly, I talked to several trainers, emailed with Ed Frawley and as a last result tried the ecollar. To understand what it would be like for the dog, I tried it on myself first, yes it is shocking not painful. It is actually for use on small dogs. I don't like using it but could not seem to get our dog to learn "no" until I tried it and now he seems to understand, and I really don't need to use the collar except occasionally using the tone without a shock.
This is a bit off topic- but I went to the site and I have a question. I thought to Koer the dog had to have a SchH 3, AD, show rating and a hip stamp. Is this correct? Or can a dog with lesser titles get the KKL1? Not including herding titles I just mean SchH titles. Thanks
I thought to Koer the dog had to have a SchH 3, AD, show rating and a hip stamp. Is this correct? Or can a dog with lesser titles get the KKL1?
They have to have a sch title period. Whether it be a sch1 or sch3. Most show line females only go to a sch1 then go for the kkl. Must have passing scores of 70, except in protection work where you must have an 80 to pass.
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