 glen johnson tracking
#337788 - 07/03/2011 12:13 PM |
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I am weighing up the different approaches to teaching a 10 month old GSD to track.Has anyone completed the Glen Johnson 10 week programme that might like to take a few questions or post comments.
Is Glen just as relevant today as when he was being so successful with his dogs.
comments welcomed
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Re: glen johnson tracking
[Re: Jack Gingell ]
#337793 - 07/03/2011 04:21 PM |
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Glen Johnson's book is over 35 years old and a lot of the methods used back then have evolved into better methods now - we understand canine drives *much* better nowadays, and that's driven the changes to training methods.
That being said, you could train a dog to pass the AKC tracking test with these methods, but you'd lose a lot of points in a SchH trial.
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Re: glen johnson tracking
[Re: Will Rambeau ]
#337796 - 07/03/2011 04:37 PM |
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Thank you for your reply,Will
I understand the point re Sch tracking but I will be training for Working trials .My dog is quite prey driven so do I really need to use food.Glen only used food for what he termed "non retrievers"and absolutely no forced tracking
It seems to be a very intensive imprint but one that seems to make a lot of sense.I started with the scent pads and short tracks without any problems and then I read Glens book which made me re think the training.Hate to get it wrong .as I am lucky enough to have a cracker.would you like to recommend a more modern approach if that's the way to put it.?
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Re: glen johnson tracking
[Re: Jack Gingell ]
#337797 - 07/03/2011 04:46 PM |
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Jack,
I'd train with food for footstep-to-footstep tracking, no matter what the dog's food drive - it slows the dog down to checking out each footstep, and that's really important during the early phases of tracking training.
Prey-driven dogs tend to "hurry" a track trying to get to the end of it for whatever reward is there, and you can end up looking like the dog is taking you water sking, if you're not careful.... 
For a non-food driven dog, I withhold food until the dog shows me that he's hungry, and I then feed them on a scent pad and repeat this step alone for three weeks.
After three weeks of this you can bet that the dog is carefully checking out his scent pad, and I then start straight ten to twenty step tracks off the scent pad with food in every step.
I've had this work with every dog that I've trained since I adopted this method ( Bernhard Flinks taught me this ) and I've used this on many of our club dogs also.
Hope that helps!
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Re: glen johnson tracking
[Re: Will Rambeau ]
#337798 - 07/03/2011 05:05 PM |
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if you will excuse the pun I will digest what you have said.it is much appreciated.
luckily my dog is also food motivated.I did the scent pads for a month with food drops but did not put food in every footstep when I started the tracking.
My last dog only got his breakfast at the end of the track but as this one is so much more motivated with toys I was re examining my programme.
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Re: glen johnson tracking
[Re: Jack Gingell ]
#337800 - 07/03/2011 06:14 PM |
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I will cut back on food, but never withold it. also i never put food on the scent pad. i place it on the first step. i give him a chance. if he quits.(after a few weeks) i then go to compulsion i just trained a k-9 w/ his handler tracking. he was told by a dept that his dog couldn't track 4 weeks later he completed a sch 2 style track/ no force. now it's time for the real world tracking. the main thing is get out there and run a few tracks and find out what works, food, toys, force, etc nothing beets experience. good luck
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Re: glen johnson tracking
[Re: john axe ]
#337950 - 07/06/2011 11:31 AM |
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I found that FST when my not-that-foody dog was hungry was a good "step." lol
In fact, it was through Will's advice that I learned this.
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Re: glen johnson tracking
[Re: Will Rambeau ]
#337967 - 07/06/2011 06:30 PM |
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Jack,
I'd train with food for footstep-to-footstep tracking, no matter what the dog's food drive - it slows the dog down to checking out each footstep, and that's really important during the early phases of tracking training.
Prey-driven dogs tend to "hurry" a track trying to get to the end of it for whatever reward is there, and you can end up looking like the dog is taking you water sking, if you're not careful....
Will, you just NAILED my dog. Hurry up and track, is Koenig's MO. Gosh, that dog can PULL. I've gone waterskiing through plenty of tracks, corners and all. LOL.
My advice to the OP is to follow Will's advice! It's much easier to teach a dog slow at the beginning, rather then going back after 6 months + of tracking and trying to slow them back down. (which is where I am with my dog- he's 2. We're doing long, straight, "puppy" tracks with food in every step.)
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Re: glen johnson tracking
[Re: john axe ]
#337986 - 07/07/2011 04:42 AM |
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i give him a chance. if he quits.(after a few weeks) i then go to compulsion i just trained a k-9 w/ his handler tracking.
Compulsion does not end well in tracking especially in police work. The dog is not focused on finding scent. He is focused on avoiding a correction. That's fine for a shutzhund dog where you know there's a track but in police work you'll get a dog that "pretends" to track just to avoid a correction. Unfortunately a canine handler is just that. A HANDLER. No training experience or knowledge of dog behavior required. Keep to what you know and leave police training to those who are experienced with the difference between it and sport work.
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Re: glen johnson tracking
[Re: Cathy Goessman ]
#338030 - 07/07/2011 10:47 PM |
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who are you to judge me . you only use compulsion if the dog quits or goes to fast.the above dog was being rejected by another state agency. if read the post you would see it was done without force. we will start police tracking in a couple of weeks. I was the k9 trainer for our dept and Il law enforcement training and standard certified trainer i can list all my qual. if necessary (I never bragged about all the titles, Ha Ha it's just titles 25 years No big deal) i also worked with bloodhounds. they trail completely different we have a few handlers in our unit that had the same attitude as yours. after they been in the unit for a while they all admit they don't know it all The people on this board are geared more for the sport i doubt if they are tracking suspects. with that said i do appreciate your service stay safe
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