We were out on a walk Monday night, and passed by a neighbor we're not particularly close to, but every once in a while chat with. We stopped, and my 5 year old daughter started talking to and playing with their young son, I think about 3.5 years old. I started talking to his mom, and eventually my daughter followed her son inside his house. Ruger, my 8.5 mo GSD pup, went nuts. He did the bark/whine thing, and tried to pull toward the house. I got him calmed down so we could continue talking, but he was still apparently "worried" about his little girl. When she came back out of the house, he didn't really react at all, but when the little boy came out, he came skipping toward my daughter, who was standing beside Ruger. In an instant, Ruger got up and put his mouth on the boy's arm. I would say "bite", but it was more like he was trying to control the boy, and not that he was trying to attack. Perhaps Ruger was trying to protect his "little girl", but I am not a fan of his methods...no harm done, except I think he scared the boy, and probably his mom, though his mom was the one who came up with the potential reasons "why", and seemed to be calm about it. Anyway, we are not normally in these kind of situations, like, EVER, so it caught me off guard, and I'm not sure how I can "socialize" him to that situation if it never happens again. But...IF IT DOES...I definitely don't want Ruger to be putting his mouth on little kids to try to protect his pack or control them. What do I do??? Obviously, just having been through this, I can say I WILL be naturally more focused on Ruger's behavior,if the situation ever comes up again. But in the mean time, is there something I need to be doing to hopefully have this kind of thing never happen again? Aside from just keeping him away from kids, who he NORMALLY is SUPER DUPER FANTASTIC with. (After all, he learned from "his" 2 kids how to be calm and sweet with little ones!)

Different situation...similar question...
My next door neighbor likes to talk through the fence sometimes, and if Ruger is with me, he goes bonkers, trying to get to the poor lady. I try to calm him down, but several times now, he gets so frustrated, till he can't take it anymore, and then he jumps up and grabs my right arm. (Crazy, but it's ALWAYS the right arm.) Again, not a bite, but NOT something I want him doing, either. Every time he does that, he has been on leash, with a prong collar, and I give him a strong correction, and make him settle down. Ironically, after having grabbed my arm, he is able to settle down right away. Obviously, I'm not doing something I should be doing to prevent this from happening in the first place, but what is it that I should be doing?

I have been really trying to work with him on his attitude/excitement, whatever you might call it, whenever we go outside, because no matter how calm he is before we head out the door, he starts immediately working himself up when we step outside. He gets puffed up, on alert, and woofs before he even sees anything out of order, and even if nothing is wrong, he continues to woof. This is NOT a bark, but kind of an "I'm nervous" woof (with his ruff up), which does not get a correction with our bark collar. I correct him with the prong, because if I didn't, he'd work up to an all out bark fest, over nothing at all (at least as far as I can see!). I'm thinking I need to do the "out the door" process a zillion times till he stays calmer about the whole thing, but I don't know what tools and techniques would be helpful. What I have done has not worked so far. Or maybe my expectations are unrealistic for a pup his age? It would definitely help if we had a more private fence, and I knew that would be a problem when we put up the wire fence, but it'll be a couple years before we can afford to extend the block wall, and I'd like to get him to the point that he doesn't feel so nervous or threatened by the vulnerability of the seemingly open area out there. I'm thinking of planting vines, and wonder if that little bit of cover would help him feel more cozy and secure...I know it would help me feel like I have a tiny bit of privacy out there! Either way, I have a feeling that his frustration over the neighbor's presence, when she is out there, is exaggerated by the fact that he seems to be expecting trouble whenever he leaves the house, so he's not confident or calm, to begin with, and then there's this lady that seems to be a threat...

Any help or ideas will be most helpful!
Thanks!
Laurie Hill

Are you familiar with NILIF?

Others will have suggestions, and this is JMO: This looks to me like a dog who sees himself as default pack leader, and the big outdoors as a requirement that he be hyper-vigilant.

I'd probably work on desensitizing, too, with ob in the hallway, on the porch, etc. (Have you read desensitizing threads?)

I'd probably work with the dog at the back door, too, with the neighbor in her yard and silent, any only gradually move closer to the fence, etc., etc.

But I see it as mainly a leadership thing. That is, he needs to see you as the boss of the pack and the protector of him, and not the other way around.

JMO!

UGH...

Well, that's entirely possible, though I have to say we've come a LONG way. He tried from the very start to be "top dog", and so I had to work with him on that from the very beginning. Just a couple months ago, he finally started treating me like I'm the leader, though apparently that's not true in every situation. I DO struggle with him outside ALOT...he completely ignores my "no" and any corrections when we are not in the house. :-( I DO know and use NILIF, but I'm not sure how I'm failing when it comes to the outdoors. I'm missing something here, then. I actually just thought he was redirecting frustration onto me, when it comes to the neighbor, but if it really is a leadership issue...that's different. Interestingly, though, we've had many opportunities in my (frustrating) neighborhood, for me to protect him from aggressive dogs and their idiot owners. But I guess he doesn't see it that way?? Not sure what I'm doing wrong then???

Hi Laurie, and welcome!
Here's a good place to start:
Pack Structure for the Family Pet

and this free e-book:
http://leerburg.com/ebooks/puppygroundwork.pdf

Keep working on the pack structure, and remember that even if your training is not bullet proof, you can always manage a given situation. ie Keep the pup on a long line, and use a prong collar if you are not strong enough to keep him by your side with a flat collar and leash.

 Quote: Laurie Hill

UGH...

I'm not sure how I'm failing when it comes to the outdoors. I'm missing something here, then. I actually just thought he was redirecting frustration onto me, when it comes to the neighbor, but if it really is a leadership issue...that's different. ?

It is a leadership issue. Have you and your dog practiced calmness every time before you and your dog head out the door? Very important to remind the dog not to get over excited for his walk. What I have learned with one of my nutcase dogs, I need to relax and breath often. If he gets crazy and overexcited, I just walk back home. Try it all over again. Every time he gets excited he goes home then we would try again. He seems to get the message, but I have to be consistent and patient with him that part was hard.

Thanks...I've read all the articles, and I know a refresher never hurts, though I don't have the time right now. I actually have several Leerburg videos, and am wanting to review those again too.

I do use a prong, I started before the "recommended" puppy time, because he's very strong, and I fell once because of him, while carrying my baby! :-O I've almost fallen because of him many times, even with the prong, usually in the presence of other people or dogs. Ironically, the other people must not notice I'm about to fall or something, because they act like I'm the devil for even using the prong, much less correcting him! Anyway...Ruger does very well on the leash. Because of the kids walking/strolling/backpacking with (or on) me, he stays by my side MOST of the time. I do let him range out when it is safe, and when it is "part of my plan", and not just because it's what he wants to do. But he "downs" for it, too. We are still working on being around other people or dogs without getting over excited and pulling, but that is definitely a work in progress...for both of us. I have this terrible compulsion to please others, and if they want to pet him, even when he is in an over excited state, I have allowed that to happen. :-P

My biggest problem with the topic of the original post, though, is going out the BACK door of the house, and to the potty area. That's when he's trying to take over control, it seems, and I'm working on that now, too.

What about the "little boy" situation, though? Will that resolve itself without further training if Ruger sees me as the leader? He won't ever try to "control" another child again if a similar situation happens again? I just want to make sure I've got the original questions covered. Thank you for the responses so far! :-)
Laurie

 Quote:

What about the "little boy" situation, though? Will that resolve itself without further training if Ruger sees me as the leader? He won't ever try to "control" another child again if a similar situation happens again? I just want to make sure I've got the original questions covered. Thank you for the responses so far! :-)

You need to make sure he's not put in that situation again. There is no guarantee that this might not happen another time.
In other words, you need to control the situation by having him leashed and by your side when he's around kids that aren't your own. Put him in a sit and step on the leash so that he has to stay by your side.

Tell kids and parents that he's learning his manners, and for now you aren't allowing anyone to pet him.

In addition, you may want to step up his exercise. An 8 month old pup needs more than calm walking, IMO. (and you may be exercising him more than that; I can't tell from your post)

Is your yard completely fenced?

 Quote:

I have this terrible compulsion to please others, and if they want to pet him, even when he is in an over excited state, I have allowed that to happen. :-P

If you allow him to be petted when he's overly excited, you are reinforcing the excited behavior. Just tell people nicely that you are working on his manners and for now he can't be petted.

"I have this terrible compulsion to please others, and if they want to pet him, even when he is in an over excited state, I have allowed that to happen."

Do you see how this pretty much erases the pack leadership you might practice in other areas?

You are the boss. Not only is the dog not the boss, but other people trying to bypass your authority are not the boss.

The dog won't view you as his leader/protector/decider of all interactions unless you actually are.

This mindset is pretty easy to step into, I think. (Practice at the mirror! )

 Quote: Lynne Barrows

... If you allow him to be petted when he's overly excited, you are reinforcing the excited behavior. Just tell people nicely that you are working on his manners and for now he can't be petted.

Also, I say it with no invitation to discuss. That is, I have already turned away or placed myself between the dog and the pushy human.