After trying it for a few months it's not for me i'm going back to the old ways. i want it black and white . i don't want him trying to figure out what i want. i will still continue to use food, etc and buy the dvd's and take what is useful for me i worked with her six days a week short periods i took he to pet smart. i forgot the food she didn't want to listen i took her out and reinforced the sit she knowa what it is now.

I would think that a pet store (moreso) then any other store for that matter would be the kind of higher distraction level that would need to be worked up to. I think that your expectations are a little out of line with this pup & that level distraction.

This is a puppy, right? How old?

Doesn't sound like you (for the pups sake) have given it a fair shot. I couple of months of first time marker training may not be enough time for a beginer marker training trainer to teach a young pup.

If you timing is off even just slightly it will delay learning. I have worked with clients that had a hard time with timing & the result was that the dogs just didn't learn very quickly at all. Not a training error, but a TRAINER error. IMO

It can be hard to give up what we know has worked in the past & try something new & out of your comfort zone. That doesn't mean that with a little extra time & effort it won't work.

I'm not going to tell you that you will NEVER have to correct your older dog(not a puppy) (way down the road)for absolute proofing. But I can tell you that they will be far & few between if you dog is well marker trained.

You won't be disappointed if you stick with it.

Ed is a perfect example of someone who kinda got stuck in his old ways. Until watching Cindy with a few pups & really seeing how great MT is that he gave it a try & never looked back. He will be the first to admit this & has.

 Quote: john axe

After trying it for a few months it's not for me i'm going back to the old ways. i want it black and white . i don't want him trying to figure out what i want. i will still continue to use food, etc and buy the dvd's and take what is useful for me i worked with her six days a week short periods i took he to pet smart.

Way too much distraction too soon.

I give a GIANT ditto to Anne's post.

I promise (and I have never had to eat these words) that after a fair try and watching someone do it well, you will never look back.

I'm old. Maybe not Bob Scott old , but old enough to have come from compulsion-was-all-there-was era, and while I had at least progressed to positive-reward training, if it it hadn't been for Ed, I might still be snickering at marker training.

The thing is, black and white are an illusion, and depending on the dog, the circumstances and the handler, a combination of responses might be the best approach. I'm not an expert, but I can say with certainty that a compulsion only approach with my dog would be a disaster.

she and her litter mates are very high drive i have owned malinois before. she knew what sit means. i just reinforced it. she does very well with marker training, fast sit's down;s touch pads work excellent bakr on co command and shake hands . she is not going to lunge at people and act like an idiot when i dont have food w/ me. i now you believe in it but the proof is the scores what was your last ob scores in schutzhund?

Hey John, marker training isnt some completely different re-write of all dog training. I think its just an easy way to improve your timing. I know I had a 78 once and I think I had a 90 or 88. I don't remember exactly.

steve,good scores. i expect my dog to behave while i am speaking to someone. i have v rated in tracking and protection but only g and sg in ob.

Me too, but its two separate issues, I think anyway John. Formal ob and manners. I failed tracking both trials with my Rott. My shepherd is better, so we'll see.

 Quote: steve strom

Hey John, marker training isnt some completely different re-write of all dog training. I think its just an easy way to improve your timing. I know I had a 78 once and I think I had a 90 or 88. I don't remember exactly.

'Zackly.

All else aside, there is no other method (IMHO) to relate the reward to the behavior that can equal "marking" the exact second when the dog does what the reward is for.

It's just not possible to take that split-second photo for the dog of what the behavior that earned the reward was if we are trying to get the actual reward to the dog in time to make that association. We can't.

But we CAN "mark" the moment, once we have linked the marker with the reward.

JMO!

John, in your 1st post you say that marker training is not for you & you are going back to your old ways. Am I to assume that is compulsion based training?.....then you say in your next post that she is doing well with marker training. Am I the only one that is confused with your contradiction?

So you corrected the puppy because you subjected her to a 'too high distraction level' that she was not ready for & she didn't obey your command?

I don't care what your SchH scores are or how many mals you've owned...that's NOT fair to that puppy.

Bob Scott, will most likely check in here, tonight. He titled at least 2 GSDs (that I know of) in SchH. One exclusively with marker training & zero physical corrections.

I doubt that I am the only one...but seem to ALWAYS have some treats in my pockets when I have puppies. Often still do, with adult trained dogs, as it is always nice to surprize them with a treat when they least expect it. :-)