I had Skipper's teeth checked a few months ago and the vet said they were in great shape. He sleeps a lot, and when he gets up his breath is very strong (like morning breath). Is there anything else I should be looking for? I felt all along his jawline, top and bottom, and his chin and he didn't flinch, there wasn't any swelling. Should I be brushing his teeth? He is eating RMB and I use high quality kibble for treats.

Have you had a blood work-up done? Kidney issues and diabetes can both cause breath changes.

Also, teeth and gums checked how? Under sedation, x-ray, everything?

Or looked at?

Lack of tartar is a great sign but doesn't mean there is nothing else going on.

Bad breath is a sign of something. JMO! Infection is always a strong possibility, and the most common culprit is oral, but Becky's suggestions are also not at all uncommon.

Bad breath isn't normal in dogs, so you are smart to be asking. Even up close, my dogs (all of whom have had complete dental workups within the last year or two) have mouths that smell kind of like watery caves, maybe with an overlay of meat, but only if they have eaten recently. That is, not unpleasant at all. (I know this is a lot of weird detail, but I was surprised years ago to realize how not-at-all unpleasant the healthy mouth of a healthy dog really smells.)

I'll dig up some saved reading material.


ETA:
http://pets.webmd.com/dogs/guide/bad-breath-dogs




Edited by Connie Sutherland (09/16/2011 10:23 AM)
Edit reason: ETA

I brush my dogs' teeth once a week. I suppose it helps keep their teeth a little cleaner, but mostly it gives me a once-a-week excuse to examine their mouths to see if anything's new/wrong/weird in there. And it gets the dogs accustomed to having somebody fooling around in their mouths.

Huh. Skipper was treated last year for a kidney infection because he was drinking huge amounts of water and peeing a lot. The treatment cleaned up those symptoms. Now I wonder if it is his kidneys. He has been more anxious and clingy lately. I ascribed it to changes in the house because we are getting ready for renovations, but I wonder if he is in pain?

The oral examine was visual, he wasn't sedated and no x-rays were taken.

I think I had better make an appointment with the vet.

Update after the vet appointment: skipper's breath wasn't discernibly bad when we went to the vet yesterday afternoon. The vet took blood and a urine sample. He did a visual inspection of skipper's gums and teeth and ruled them out as a possible source.

The lab results came back today and there are no signs of infection. The vet noted skipper's ammonia levels were slightly elevated (16) but below threshold for concern (20). He said we could give skipper a course of antibiotics as a preventative, in case he has a very low grade kidney infection. He reassured us that there was no bacteria in the urine sample.

Now that I am noticing it, the bad breath is not constant and is usually present after he wakes up from sleeping. For example, I haven't noticed it for a few days.

The vet thinks the bad breath might be digestive, as in, gas coming back up rather than going out the rear. He suggested a diet of potatoes and ground pork, cooked, to see if that made a difference.

If skipper's kidneys are under functioning (the slightly elevated levels of ammonia in his urine), the vet suggested putting him on a reduced protein diet. At present he eats raw - ground up chicken (meat and bones), interspersed with meals of chicken backs and necks. Sometimes we mix his ground chicken and bones with 25% fresh ground vegetable and fruit. I think it might be a good idea to change the proportion of protein in his diet, but I'm not sure what we would change.

just a thought...
i have been researching a lot on raw food diets latley (we switched over) and one thing i remember reading is that tripe (though it smells pretty rank) will help clean the teeth and give better breath. Just somthing i read...maybe somone on here knows more on that subject..hope all goes well

 Quote: jenny arntzen

... If skipper's kidneys are under functioning .... the vet suggested putting him on a reduced protein diet.

I can post more tomorrow, but wanted to provide a link to Mary Straus's great site. We've posted this here several times in the past, about protein and kidney function.

http://www.dogaware.com/health/kidneyprotein.html

This article gives us the opportunity to read from many authoritative sources, all of whose research maintains that "reducing protein in the diet does not slow the progression of kidney disease nor prolong life."

Many authoritative sources are quoted here, basically saying in greater or lesser detail that "The myth that high-protein diets are harmful to kidneys probably started because, in the past, patients with kidney disease were commonly placed on low-protein (and thus low-nitrogen) diets." (Drs Foster & Smith)

and that
"Contrary to popular myth, diets rich in protein ("high protein levels") do not cause kidney damage. Research done decades ago indicated that rodent kidneys were adversely affected by diets high in protein... and misguided researchers extrapolated that data to apply to the canine. There is no evidence that feeding dogs and cats diets rich in or "high" in protein actually causes kidney damage or disease. Some day this myth will be finally be put to rest. In fact, there is ample research and well documented studies that prove that dogs and cats thrive on diets with levels of protein consistent with a meat-eater's (carnivore) natural prey selection."

Also, from Protein Restriction and Kidney Disease Extracts from Kirk's Current Veterinary Therapy XII, with links to a number of abstracts:
"In perhaps the most noted clinical trial examining effects of high protein diet on progression of CRD, groups of dogs diagnosed with CRD were fed either high protein diets or low protein diets. No significant difference was observed in the rate of progression of CRD in the high-protein group compared to the low protein group. Therefore, excess protein in the diet did not appear to compromise renal function even in the presence of high endogenous levels of protein associated with the disease. In fact, on an individual basis some of the CRD dogs in the high protein diet group faired better. This finding was postulated to be associated with the fact that protein is required for cellular repair and function."

You'll find about twenty authoritative sources quoted. Even Purina and Iams have moved well away from the low-protein stance (years ago), leaving Hills alone, as far as I know, in staying with their recommendation of their Prescription Diet® Canine k/d®.

But you'll want to read the article (and maybe some of the excerpted sources) in its entirety. I think you'll be very interested.

Also, if you don't have Lew Olson's book http://leerburg.com/9000.htm , then you'll want to see this article http://www.b-naturals.com/newsletter/kidney-diet/ , scrolling to ".... veterinarians may suggest to lower protein at any sign of renal problems, but it has been discovered that this can do more harm than good" and the subsequent links to sources explaining that paragraph, and much more.

All JMO, and again, my excerpts above should be read in context, in the article(s).

Also,

http://www.dogfoodscoop.com/support-files/bovee_protein_renal.pdf

Wow. Thanks for these resources. We will continue with our routine for now and do more research before making any changes.