I am trolling for suggestions here... I've seen dogs with a lot of interesting "hangups," but nothing quite like the 17-mo-old bitch I am working right now.

In general, she has respectable prey drive. She will chase after a ball at full speed (usually overshooting the ball in the process) and likes a good game of tug.

Now here's the thing: She has a very, very powerful nose and prefers to keep her nose to the ground when we're walking along... she has already demonstrated the ability to track human scent along sidewalks, etc., and really seems to enjoy this. Of course I have not overlooked the obvious here--this little girl is a tracking fool and I have all kinds of plans to track her in the future.

But in the meantime, we need to pass the BH. I'm having trouble getting her to focus on a ball or on food because she either wants to put her nose to the ground or she detects movement off in the distance (crazy prey drive for squirrels, etc.). This is a happy, friendly, upbeat dog and if there is some way to get her attention without whanging hell outta her with a prong, I would prefer to do it that way.

I'll mention a couple of other things: I've had her for 3 months now and she came to me with no obedience skills whatever--not even "sit". A total wild animal. She now knows basic obedience and will hold a long down (under distraction) for ten minutes. She can heel off-lead, sort of, while looking straight ahead... it's not real pretty or correct.

To cap what I'm trying to say: This is a dog that will go tearing after a ball, slam on the brakes halfway there, and go trotting off in a different direction after a scent. I've never seen anything like it.

We've got some great trainers out there and I can't wait to hear your suggestions...

Pete Felknor

I would probably treat the scenting like any other distraction; with a "Leave It" command. I might also suggest that you work on "Look at me" or "Watch", so that you can redirect her attention to YOU at any time.

Thanks for responding... I've been working on "Watch me!" before starting an exercise, but the only way to get her to do it is with a real hard pop on the prong. Treats, moving the ball real fast, whistling, calling her name--none of that gets a predictable upward glance. She's too busy looking around.

BTW this pop on the prong, if sufficiently hard to get her attention, is just as likely to make her platz as to get her to watch me.

This is distraction issue too, not lack of understanding the command... I have always used "watch me" with my dogs before setting their food down, and you can bet she watches me when it's feeding time! :rolleyes:

Pete Felknor

Pete,

Could it be an avoidance issue or a "trust" issue? You mentioned she was a "wild animal" & you only had her for 3 months & you got her when she was older(?) which means she has a "history" you may not know about. How is her eye contact when you are just hanging out?

I have had similar issues with both of my dogs. Some things you might try are:
*Giving her a chance to run off some extra steam and do a little sniffing before diving into the "work".
*Taking her out to work a little hungry, and use better/stinkier/tastier treats than usual.
*Jackpot the first few desireable responses, then make her work harder with intermittent jackpots.
*Use a ball that makes noise. A squeaky is good, and the "giggle ball" is nice, because it makes sounds as it bounces, similar to a small animal running away.
*Make your training sessions short. Just one or two quick, fun, successful things.

Maybe rather than focusing on ONE way to make her more attentive, combine several different strategies.

Going into a platz when corrected does sound like an avoidance to me; my little mixed breed bitch does the same thing. When she does it, that tells me that I need to slow down a bit and give her a bit more of a chance to offer the correct behavior before I issue a correction. It's a trust thing, like Ellen said.

You could try working in an empty parking lot. Best if it is an abandoned one or one without much traffic. Minimal scent opportunity?

I think I would also starve and crate the dog before training sessions for a bit. Use really smelly good food treats to keep her attention, and keep her on leash to play tug. If she loses focus, back to the crate for 10 minutes. Try to work on her that way, to get a little bit more focus on you.

Create frustration for food and attention. Alleviate that frustration only with focused work with you. Short to start, just "watch" commands, etc. for the food.

That is the best I can think of right now. I also wouldn't be to hot on correcting her for following her nose. That could mess with tracking work later.

Pete, you've hit on the "essence" of all training problems... how to deal with distraction. Even if a dog has VERY high ball drive.... when new stimuli (people, smells etc.) are present, the focus on the ball will decrease.

There are at least 5 different approaches to dealing with this (I do not know which is best):

1. Correct the dog for paying attention to things other than the handler.
2. Teach a "watch me" command using correction
3. Allow the dog to "explore" until the distraction becomes less exciting and the dog has matured... allowing more focus on the ball.
4. Place the dog in a down when it is distracted until it becomes so bored that the ball is more exciting.
5. Some combination of the above.

** I've also heard that placing a touch of Vicks vapor rub on the dogs nose can decrease the desire to sniff everything (never tried it though).

I'd be interested to see which approach Sch3FH2 and other TRIAL veterans recommend.

This brings to mind the advice given to me by some of my original trainers. "Before training in an area, or coming to class let the dog run around on a loose leash, sniff, do his business, etc. That way after about 10 minutes some of his energy will be let loose, he's familiar with the area and he won't be as distracted."

Other advice like keeping the dog hungry and going in for the really good treats is good too.

Maybe you could use the tracking/sniffing itself as a reward. Would that make sense? Can you do that? Especially if she has a natural nose to begin with. It seems like that is a great motivator for her.

Just a thought....

Thanks again to everybody... my head is already swimming with ideas.

Ellen: From what I can gather from the rescue where I got her, the real problem is that no one could handle her drive (GSD/Mal mix). Of course I don't know exactly what happened to her over the 14 months I didn't have her, but I see absolutely no evidence that she was mistreated in any way. As I've said--a very happy dog that likes every single person she meets, especially children. She takes corrections well without shutting down, isn't hand-shy in the least, and is not sensitive to loud noises or sudden movement. Other than some mild dog aggression, I see no evidence of any baggage from her past. Off the field she is very affectionate and likes to be near me whenever possible. My nickname for her is "Mother Hen." <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

L. Swanston: I always let her burn off energy before starting a training session--that's an absolute must-do. This dog has off-the-scale drive. I haven't tried the squeaky-toy idea, though...

VanCamp: Lots of empty parking lots near my house (industrial park where I frequently go tracking). I'll give that a try, and bring a crate along. Others here may disagree with me, but I'm in total agreement with you that I don't want to do ANYTHING to mess with that tracking drive.

Dave: Tried all your suggestions (that's pretty much the mode I'm working in now) except the last one. She'll hold a down well. I'll see how that works next time out.

Keep 'em coming folks... I knew I could count on y'all! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Pete Felknor

Caniche--sorry, just saw your post.

Your idea was the most recent one I've had, and I tried it to a limited extent this morning. The problem with letting her go off with her nose down is that she completely loses her focus on what we're doing. This girl LIVES to track, almost to where nothing else matters to her. I would imagine that she dreams all night of tracking...

Now, if there was just a way to let her sniff for a minute or so and then get her attention back on the work we're doing...

Pete Felknor