Sam, (my daughter) has applied for a canine carer job at one of the best regarded and most respected rescue centres we have in the UK, these jobs are as rare as hens teeth and only come up from time to time, she has grown up around dogs, and as well as our own over the years, we used to take friends dogs while the owners were on holiday etc, everything from Chihuahuas, Jacks, labs, whippets, as well as the larger bull breeds, so she has handled a variety of dogs and is very involved and proactive with the mouthy and boisterous boerboel behaviour, isn't phased by disciplining or using the prong and e-collar for corrections - and therein lies the problem.

The rescue centres in the UK are publicly anti prongs and e's, and because they are entirely charitably funded, i.e. by your average and uneducated (though well meaning) pet owner, I cannot imagine they would admit that these training tools are valid in some situations, because the aforementioned pet owning public would withdraw their support and the headlines in the dog publications would kill off any future support.

How likely is it she would even be asked what methods of training and discipline we use when she would mostly be shoveling poo, feeding, grooming and walking the dogs there anyway? and if she IS asked, does she say yes, we use prongs and e's where necessary?

I don't think being economical with the truth is the right way forward with a job like this at interview, it seems disrespectful and dishonest.

Jobs like this just don't come up more than once in a blue moon, people just don't leave, I'm just not sure I feel comfortable in her lying if they ask her what method of training/discipline she uses on her own dogs; maybe I am overthinking this, maybe she just shouldn't apply for it.

I know a lot of people on here work in or are involved in rescue, what do you think about this?

Thanks

Getting the foot in the door is the goal! If it was my daughter, I'd counsel her to try her best to do that, expressing familiarity with
all training methods can only be good: going on and on about the benefits of shock collars and pinch collars might be offensive to some, no need to be over the top.

Yes I pretty much think that too, the opportunity to work in this particular organisation just doesn't come up very often, and she isn't the sort of kid to give opinions to her elders and betters, so whilst she wouldn't offer up the information on the prongs and e-collars, I think we will go over together the best way to explain the reasons we do use them, if she is asked.

She understands that this sort of work involves the sad cases along with the happy endings, and I just think the chance to roll her sleeves up and get stuck into the damn hard work these dogs entails would be an amazing education for her, if you can suggest any likey scenarios they will present to her, that would be really useful, she always prepares for interviews by researching the company she is going to, so any ideas would really be appreciated.

Thanks

It's a touchy subject. My former employment was as a rescue manager at a multi species rescue (horses, pigs, dogs, barn yard animals)

As a rescue, we were VERY opposed to invisible fence, prongs/chokes/e collar, and all of the 'terrible' tools that people use to abusively train dogs.... Now, when I send pictures of Koenig to my former boss I've got to make sure that he's not wearing an e collar, or a prong.....

If she's outright asked about her beliefs in correcting dogs while training, I think she'd be able to dance around the question. "It really depends on the circumstance, and each individual dog. Some dogs are OK with being told 'NO' firmly, where that would not phase other dogs."

If specifically asked if she uses prongs/e collars then certainly tell the truth, but perhaps back it up with 'I grew up with very large, strong breeds, that have a tendency to be difficult to train'.

Yes, I think some carefully worded coaching may be in order for the initial interview, (if she is lucky to get that far)

Its funny what you say about your former boss, when we met our breeder of the BB's for the first time, she had prepared a whole folder of info, including how much safer and more practical prongs were over checks, SHE was the one nervous about suggesting it, though when it came to the e-collar, I saw her damn great male, all 14 stone of him, had a squirty collar on, that when she activated it only soaked me, and he didn't give a toss, then last time we went up at the beginning of the summer this year, I had e-collars on the 2 yellows, (as we were going for a pub lunch with her family and one of her dogs), and I wasn't prepared to take any chances, braced myself for some possible remonstrating and she admitted she did actually use them too but wasn't sure if I would have approved, such is the attitude to these invaluable tools in the dog world.

When I take the BB's to the vets I always use the prongs, no one has ever tutted or offered an opinion - not sure what reaction the e's would get, it is already illegal in Wales, and in one of the 'serious' dog publications reported a farmer in Wales was training his BC on his own land, (re-conditioning the youngsters escapology routine over the dry stone wall) when some passer by saw him, reported him and he was heavily fined by the Police.

Yes, really.

So you can see our concern regarding the question arising!

Yes, I defineately see your concern! The rescue I foster for is publicly not for check, prong or e-collars because of the way some people misuse them. However they've said nothing to me recently about me using them both on my own dogs as well as my fosters as I've demonstrated I know how to use them properly and just as importantly when not to use them. That being said, I'm not supposed to reccomend them and usually do a switcheroo on training collars when I take a foster to the shelter to be viewed out of respect for shelter policy. It really depends on who is in charge and what their views are. We quit fostering when they wanted to make me sign an agreement that only approved training collars could be used on fosters and only came back to ask for the "hard cases" after the new leadership assured us that we could use the training collars of our choice as they knew we started with marker training.

I would just coach her to stress the positive aspects like marker training, say she is familiar with many different methods, be vague on disapline methods with a "depends on the dog" which it does and if directly asked if she has used prongs, be honest but explain with I grew up with huge dogs that were difficult to train. Same thing for the e-collars.

It's all so funny to me....
ANY training tool can be misused. Yes, ecollars, and prongs can top that list.... but you could break a dogs neck with a Halti head collar or gentle leader. The 'easy walk' harness effect that movement/gait of a dog, and often leave raw chaffed spots in the poor dogs armpits. Yet these are viewed as the 'humane' way to train. I dunno. My dog jumps into his prong and e collars. He knows we're going out to have FUN, when he's wearing them! I don't think he'd be nearly as joyful if he had to wear a harness that effected his natural gait when he walked/trotted/ran/sat.

...sorry.... I got off topic! Pet Peeve, can you tell?

Me too

Sam and me are going to have a possible case scenario type practice; Our bb's come at speed to sit in front of me when the prongs come out, they know the walk and the tennis ball isn't far away!

I see and chat to a lot of 'dog' people over the course of a week, most of them have small or medium sized one dog set ups, and the majority of them use flat collars or harnesses, which seem to result in the dogs pulling them towards the road/across the path etc, there are a number of rescue dogs in our small village that wear the distinctive collar of the rescue centre she is applying to, I often wonder if any of these people would benefit from their dogs wearing prongs...

Lots to mull over!

To be honest Tracey and no offence to anyone who has posted - someone in the US cannot understand how much public opinion is biased against prongs and ecollars over here. Last time I was in petsmart in the US I saw prong collars - wow. In england I only know 2 places that sell them, maybe 10 if you include mail order and that's in the whole country.

If she gets to interview and mentions them she will not get the job, simple as. I know that for a fact because I was at a conference with the decision makers for DT and BCDH etc. a few months ago - prongs were brought up and their opinions were pretty clear.