drop-dead sit, stand, down
#29885 - 06/28/2002 10:52 AM |
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What you guys would consider the best way to achieve drop-dead sit,stand or down? My guy, he is already 1 year,does it quickly but not that quick as I want him to be.
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Re: drop-dead sit, stand, down
[Re: vagabund ]
#29886 - 06/28/2002 10:42 PM |
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How fast do you want him to respond?
Butch Crabtree
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Re: drop-dead sit, stand, down
[Re: vagabund ]
#29887 - 06/28/2002 10:53 PM |
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If he is only a year, and responding, and is quick as he is, I would not mess with him at this time. Some dogs are never going to be those dogs that hit the pavement like they have been shot dogs, others can be made to do it, others have it from genitics. But at that age, be happy with what you have.
Maybe when he is older you can put some pressure on him, but I would wait. Let's see what he brings himself. If you are not using force already, meaning that he is working only for the ball with no heavy pressure, then in time, he might learn that the quicker he sits, or whatever the faster I he will get his toy. You can always put stress on him later like I said, if say in four or five months he is still slow, but you said he is fast, just not grease lightiing, so I would leave it be. What are your goals with this dog? If you are using heavy compulsion expmain what you are doing, and maybe I can share a few idea's with you. There also is a number of good trainers on the board, who may have some ideas too.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it, applies here. Good Luck.
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Re: drop-dead sit, stand, down
[Re: vagabund ]
#29888 - 06/28/2002 11:08 PM |
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Michael, your post needs to be heeded.
That's why I was asking my question. This young dog is just starting. Too many times young dogs are compared to older dogs.
Good post.
Butch Crabtree
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Re: drop-dead sit, stand, down
[Re: vagabund ]
#29889 - 06/28/2002 11:23 PM |
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Thanks Butch. My nickname is Butch. I kinda of figured that is where you were going. I don't see the point in making him faster if he is fast already and young.
A German trainer once told me that it takes him about seven months to train the exerises for Sch3. He likes to start when the dog is about a year old or so. He does alot of drive building and sitting for the ball when they are younger. But anyway he said after the seven months has past, he then needs to train for about another year before everything has settled down. He will in this year correct speed issue's and the like. He then said that after that year has past , it will be another four or five months before that dog goes to a big trial. He always said "all he needs is time" This is a rule of thumb type thing, but something that I have found tried and true.
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Re: drop-dead sit, stand, down
[Re: vagabund ]
#29890 - 07/01/2002 11:06 AM |
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Keep in mind that speed in OB is not only a training issue but a genetic issue.
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Re: drop-dead sit, stand, down
[Re: vagabund ]
#29891 - 07/01/2002 11:22 AM |
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Do you guys think that avoidance training is usually the best way to get to the top genetic potential of the dog? (talking about speed in obedience)
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Re: drop-dead sit, stand, down
[Re: vagabund ]
#29892 - 07/01/2002 11:37 AM |
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Yes, usually the positive reinforcement will only get you partway to your goal - how far depends on the drives of the dog. A really high prey, high energy dog can be taken 90% of the way to trial using positive reinforcement, and the speed may come naturally out of a high desire to earn the reward (IF the handler is talented at selectively reinforcing only the best performances). But for dogs with low drives/motivation, you can't generate a desire to work more quickly cuz he doesn't really care if he earns the reward. So you have to add some motivation in the form of fear thru avoidance conditioning.
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Re: drop-dead sit, stand, down
[Re: vagabund ]
#29893 - 07/01/2002 11:39 AM |
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Hey Vagabund, there are a couple of ways to improve how the sit looks at this stage of the game.
I'm taking this from Balabanov and Zeik Dreiev (local friend). Hi Zeik. . . <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Work on the precision of the sit and down by making sure the dog has to step back into the position. Looks faster. . .
Walking dog moves his front feet back into the sit, not his butt forward. It is easy to do by backing the dog up with the toy while teaching the command, or re-teaching as it may be. You can use a table also or platform.
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Re: drop-dead sit, stand, down
[Re: vagabund ]
#29894 - 07/01/2002 11:42 AM |
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SchH how exactly do you go about making the transition to "polish time" or "proof time".
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