We have been crate training our Mal for almost 2 months now and he is still barking/whining in the crate!!!! Not as much as before though. For instance, the only time he barks or whines now is when he knows we are home but won't pay attention to him. Its usually only a 2 minute period of whining or barking every once in a while, then he calms down. He gets plenty of exercise and he goes for a walk every 3 hours. We never take him out when he barks, only when he's quiet. I've tried the no bark collar, throwing a sheet over the crate, he gets no attention while he is in there and the crate is usually in a different room then us. Honestly, we have only seen progress with the chain collar. We tried bringing him out of the crate when the barking/whining was brought to a minimal level a few weeks ago. He was constantly leashed in the house, marker training daily, scheduled eating times in the crate, only one toy and only when we say so. This worked for a while but we put him back on 24 hour crate training because he had started to chew on the area of the carpet he already destroyed a couple months ago. I feel so bad doing this because we want him to have a happy puppy life and play and be loved on. Its getting unbearable to leave our puppy in the crate all them time but at the same time he is way too big and strong to not behave when out of the crate. Suggestions?

Also, when we do take him out of the crate and have him on a leash in the house... how do we know he is ready to be let off the leash? What's the next step?

For readers who may not have read April's previous thread, she's talking about a Malamute here, not a Malinois.

 Quote: April Hadrys

I've tried the no bark collar, throwing a sheet over the crate, he gets no attention while he is in there and the crate is usually in a different room then us. Honestly, we have only seen progress with the chain collar.

April, I am confused by the phrase, "Honestly, we have only seen progress with the chain collar." What do you mean, exactly? I assume you're referring to what's commonly called a choke chain, but in what way are you using it that you are seeing progress?

 Quote: April Hadrys

We tried bringing him out of the crate when the barking/whining was brought to a minimal level a few weeks ago. He was constantly leashed in the house, marker training daily, scheduled eating times in the crate, only one toy and only when we say so. This worked for a while but we put him back on 24 hour crate training because he had started to chew on the area of the carpet he already destroyed a couple months ago.

I'm not sure I understand how he got a chance to chew on the carpet if he's under constant supervision, but when puppies of mine try to chew on something inappropriate, I give them a "No" or "Uh-uh," and instantly redirect their attention to something they are allowed to chew on.

You mention that he is getting a lot of exercise (which is of great importance with your breed), but what kind of exercise? The northern breeds I know absolutely need to get out and run hard.

Sorry for peppering you with more questions, but I just wasn't clear on a few things.

Additionally -

How old is he?

And how much time per day (a 24 hour period to be specific)is he spending in his crate?

We started using a chain,choke, collar because he was constantly getting out of his. We were told that he needs to be submissive to us in the home and outside and this was the only method that got him under control. He walks now with no problems, never yanks free or tries to bolt. And since then we have also noticed that he seems to be under better control in his crate, as if he has calmed down and realized we only want what's best for him and the leash and crate are not punishments. That may be a wild theory but it worked for us.

He spends about half the day in the crate, half out. He doesn't get to run really hard which is upsetting cause I know he would love it but I just can't trust him off the leash. He goes for runs/walks on the leash with my fiance and I. That was actually going to be my next questions regarding letting him off the leash. We do not have a fenced in yard and our homeowners association says we are not allowed to chain up dogs outside for any period of time. There are a few big parks/fields near by that would be perfect for him to run around in but I just can't trust him off the leash.

Regarding the carpet, I was folding laundry in my bedroom so I had his leash tied to the bed like the video told me to do and next thing I know he is chewing at the carpet.

I guess what I really want to know is, is it okay to take him out of the crate even though he occasionally whines? How do I allow him off the leash to run and trust he will come back? How do I know when he is ready to be off the least in the house? And what is the next step to leashing him in the home?

From April's previous thread, I believe her dog is now about eight months old, and she got him when he was four months.

If he is now walking nicely without pulling, and being a little more quiet and calm in the crate, just by wearing the choke chain, then it sounds like you have found an effective tool. Though I admit I am still a bit confused. Are you saying just putting it on makes him behave, or are you giving him corrections with it?

As far as taking him out for a run, I wouldn't even be thinking about letting him off leash for a very long time. Yes, it's true, he is a dog with extensive exercise needs, but you'll have to get creative about it. It sounds like you and/or your fiance are runners, so that is a good thing. Take him running with you at every opportunity. Otherwise, do you have any friends or family who have a securely fenced yard and wouldn't mind you bringing your dog over for some running and training sessions? How about a securely fenced tennis court at one of the parks, assuming that wouldn't be against the rules. Not many people using them this time of year. This is a long shot, but do you know any horse people who have an indoor riding arena they would let you use for an hour here and there? If you do find a safe place to let him run, don't just let him run the whole time. Make it a training session. Practice his recalls and other commands.

As to your other questions about letting him out of the crate if he's whining and letting him off the leash in the house, it sounds to me like you are referring to instructions you got from some video, and I'm reluctant to comment since I don't know exactly what you're referring to. All I would say is, with my own dogs, they gradually got privileges of freedom in the house as they showed me they could handle it.

Please remember, April, that weekends are very slow on this board, so if you don't get much in the way of replies, please bump this on Monday so more people will see it.

Hi,

How are you training the recall?

How old is he?

When is he tethered to you?

"I guess what I really want to know is, is it okay to take him out of the crate even though he occasionally whines?"

I don't understand yet ... do you mean letting him out when he whines? Then no. You don't reward whining with any attention at all.

Are there any fenced areas you have access to? Ball-field, track?

"We were told that he needs to be submissive to us"

What does this mean to you?

For other readers, this is April's previous thread:
http://leerburg.com/webboard/thread.php?topic_id=30927&page=1#344640

When working with a young dog re: crate training, the best way to set yourself up for success is to make sure the dog is TIRED! As tired as you can get them...ready to rest and get away from the crazy lady that keeps making him do something.

I did this with all three of my GSDs and they are fantastic about being crated.

My rule of thumb when letting the dog out of the crate is this...yes, they might be whining. I wait at least 5 minutes to determine if they are serious or just "complaining". Sometimes it is hard to get a quiet moment, but even if it is just a 10 second silence/calmness, jump on it and get the dog out of the crate. If my dog has been whining in the crate, they immediately go outside with absolutely no attention from me. They are give 5-10 minutes outside to use the bathroom, (only attention given are the words "go potty") then returned to their crate, again with no attention from me. My dogs always get a treat of some type when going in their crate...usually a handful of kibble, which seems super special as they are raw fed. Keeps them busy and rewards them for settling in quietly.

This method has worked wonderfully for me. If I have a dog crying in their crate 99.9% of the time it is because they didn't do their business!

I'd say the bottom line here is your pup needs more exercise and more training.

I didn't even think about the tennis court thing, we have tons of those in the area. I will definitely try those suggestions though, thank you. Its hard for me to specific enough and/or explain thoroughly enough for some people on here so I apologize for that. He gets A LOT of exercise but with this kind of dog it is hard to give him enough because he needs to bolt and run hard which is obviously a challenge while we are trying to train him. He is a very stubborn dog and he does not give in easy so the training is taking longer than we had hoped.

When I say let him out of the crate even though he whines this is what I mean. In the pack leadership video it says to keep him on crate training until he is completely silent in the crate. Once that is achieved let him out in the house but only on a leash that we control. We never let him out BECAUSE he is whining but I mean in general, even though we have not reached complete silence can we move to the next step i.e. letting him out of the crate in the house on a leash?

We do a lot of marker training, making him pay attention to us for a treat etc. We have not started recall yet because we are completely unprepared and nervous about it because we think its too soon but I just wanted to ask for other people's opinions.

If anyone has checked out my previous post I hope you can see how much progress we have already made. Please understand we have taken all the advice given and watched the video, read the articles on the site. Now I am just looking for advice to fine tune everything and make sure I am moving in the right direction. He is extremely stubborn but we do not let up. Thank you all for your advice, and please keep it coming if you think of anything else.

"We never let him out BECAUSE he is whining but I mean in general, even though we have not reached complete silence can we move to the next step i.e. letting him out of the crate in the house on a leash?"

Yes.

Do you tether him to you?

And again, a tired well-exercised dog is a quiet dog.

Do you have either of the DVDs Power of Training w/Markers or Power of Training w/Food?

The recall is a fun, upbeat, happy, no-corrections training to start. I am asking if you have seen either of those marker videos because I'm not sure where to start you with the recall. So tell us what videos you have, have seen, etc.