 Bommi Surging during heel
#349410 - 11/15/2011 11:09 PM |
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Bommi and I started working in earnest a few days back for our Jan Obedience show. I have realized that I have not taught her to heel properly. In my eagerness to reward her engagement, I have rewarded her for heeling ahead of me , from where she was able to make eye contact. So now she is constantly surging ahead.
next issue is she does not know how to correct herself. She has to go around every time to make even small corrections.
Bommi Heel problem
1. Is my assesment of the problem correct?
2. What is the best way to solve the problem?
3. Can I teach her to contact heel while sitting down?
PS: I am not under duress to to get this done before the competition. Even with all her problems, Bommi is the sh!t. Well to be honest , I won't be competing against any good people. All other dogs will be compulsion trained.
So I want the correct way to fix the problem even if it takes a long time. Bommi is very sensitive to me correcting her. I want to make it happen with almost no corrections if possible.
regards
Ram
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Re: Bommi Surging during heel
[Re: Ramachandran Subramanian ]
#349415 - 11/16/2011 02:03 AM |
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Do you have the Michael Ellis heeling DVD? He teaches the dog to respond to leash pressure, and teaches "back" using leash pressure. You can then gently use the leash to back the dog up into proper position.
Good work though. You are right, Bommi is the sh!t. 
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Re: Bommi Surging during heel
[Re: Ramachandran Subramanian ]
#349417 - 11/16/2011 02:38 AM |
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Yes, I do have the focussed heeling DVD. So, I need to teach her to back up , Right? and when ever she surges, I need to say "back up" ?
Is that your suggestion. ?
Do you think I developed the bad habit by rewarding her in the wrong place? I reward her right next to my left thigh.
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Re: Bommi Surging during heel
[Re: Ramachandran Subramanian ]
#349425 - 11/16/2011 11:28 AM |
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Yeah, I would re-watch the section on leash pressure for sure. Once you have that trained (it doesn't take long) then you can use both the leash to back her up into proper position and eventually just use the verbal "back" command.
Also like you mention, make sure to only ever reward when she's in the desired position and never when she's forging.
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Re: Bommi Surging during heel
[Re: Ramachandran Subramanian ]
#349429 - 11/16/2011 01:27 PM |
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Hey Ram, I don't have the heeling DVD, but ME did go through leash pressure and heeling at his OB Int class when I was there.
He recommended the "follow my left leg" exercise. That way, the dog always knows to keep her shoulder even with your left leg (taught as a separate exercise first, the dog learns she is only rewarded for following your left dog, not your right).
ME recommended to always start heeling by moving your left leg first, you move your right leg if you've commanded the dog to "stay."
I also remember him talking about manipulating the dog's position by presenting the reward where you want the dog's head to be (so instead of Bommi sticking her head forward to get the treat, you would move your treat back and up a bit).
I know when I was at his school, I used a ball for reward, and he told me to throw my ball backward (instead of in front of me) to help my dog from surging forward.
BTW, Bommi is adorable! So eager to please you!
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Re: Bommi Surging during heel
[Re: Ramachandran Subramanian ]
#349430 - 11/16/2011 01:29 PM |
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I don't have the ME heeding DVD, but I do have a question/comment. (Not that I'm doubting Michael Ellis, please don't take it that way!!!!)
Why teach a 'back' command? Fuss means Fuss. Left leg alignment, please, looking at my face. If I move my right leg, don't move... if i move my left leg, hold that alignment. I don't understand why people train additional commands, like 'back' and 'tuck in', or 'straighten up'. Fuss means Fuss, right? That only means one thing, and if you back to step one, and really solidify that left leg alignment, you should be golden, IMO. (but you do have to make sure you're only rewarding a perfect heel position, and that you're reward isn't bringing her out of that position)
Hahahaha!!!!! Melissa beat me!  We were on the same idea though.
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Re: Bommi Surging during heel
[Re: Ramachandran Subramanian ]
#349431 - 11/16/2011 01:42 PM |
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Hey Kelly, I agree with what you're saying for sure. Laying a strong foundation of reinforcing the correct position, and being aware of where you reward the dog so that the act of rewarding also reinforces the correct position. I agree with taking it very slow, step by step, so that the dog really understands where it is supposed to be.
I guess the leash pressure work comes in later when you want to make small corrections in position while moving. So, if the dog even slightly forges you can catch it right away.
Also, ME uses the leash pressure work to teach left turns. The "back" command is used while teaching the left turns so that the dog really moves himself out of the way in a snappy turn.
Of course, this isn't the only way out there. 
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Re: Bommi Surging during heel
[Re: Ramachandran Subramanian ]
#349433 - 11/16/2011 01:49 PM |
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so what is the "follow my left leg" exercise? Is it on the new ME DVD? I got it, just have not had time to watch it getting ready for T-day!
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Re: Bommi Surging during heel
[Re: Kelly Byrd ]
#349434 - 11/16/2011 02:10 PM |
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Back command is used to manipulate dog's position in other situations in addition to heeling, for example in bark and hold.
Moving backwards also teaches the dog rear end awareness.
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Re: Bommi Surging during heel
[Re: Ramachandran Subramanian ]
#349435 - 11/16/2011 02:18 PM |
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I'm not arguing teaching the dog to move backwards- not at all! I think it's extremely important to increase hind end awareness. Koenig is quite proficient at heeling backwards. .... I just don't see the need to put a name to is, when it's still heeling? Does that make sense?
Personally, Koening does back on command- but it's not going to be a command that I use heeling. If he's in 'fuss' position, and I start to back up, I expect him to go with me, and maintain that left leg alignment. No additional command.
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